Fear of Apple • Hacker News Board

Re: Fear of Apple

#61

Post by betaclass » Tue, Mar 24, 2015, 5:36 PM UTC

jasode wrote: post #46

jmduke wrote: post #17

This was a much better article than I was anticipating. (A lot of Apple criticism is either shallow or vitriolic, I guess a side effect of inspiring so much fervor on either end of the spectrum.) My new favorite anecdote of Apple's deficiencies in the services side of things is how the App Store and iTunes Connect was just down for at least half a day a couple weeks back, with no visibility except a press release: ht…

>Still, it makes sense that Apple would continue to deprioritize developer relations (either implicitly or explicitly.) Yes. I think it also makes sense to remind ourselves of how Apple and Microsoft started in the 1970s. They have very different origin stories. When Bill Gates and Paul Allen were burning the midnight oil for their first successful Microsoft product, it was a BASIC interpreter for the Altair computer…

I have never heard him referred to as "Steve Woz". Steve Wozniak, sure. Woz, yes. Or even "the Woz".

Re: Fear of Apple

#62

Post by smackfu » Tue, Mar 24, 2015, 5:36 PM UTC

danielsamuels wrote: post #35

smackfu wrote: post #15

This is the same Apple who has a published document saying: "If your App is rejected, we have a Review Board that you can appeal to. If you run to the press and trash us, it never helps." https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ When this company controls your livelihood, you are wise to take a very broad view of what "trash us" means.

Yeah, this is literally covered in the article..

Oops, I missed that.

Re: Fear of Apple

#63

Post by engendered » Tue, Mar 24, 2015, 5:38 PM UTC

kaolinite wrote: post #59

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I was following quite closely when Marco Arment's article was published and the storm erupted around it. Marco's comments have totally been taken out of context here: the reason he regretted publishing the article was not out of fear of Apple primarily but because many publications took it and used it to justify the "Apple is doomed" narrative which Marco personally doesn't agree with. He was quite…

but because many publications took it and used it to justify the "Apple is doomed" narrative which Marco personally doesn't agree with

Show me one. Just one single example. I'll wait.

EDIT: Chuckle. A mod bomb on this benign post. Cool.

...

You're not going to find one. The hit piece/exaggerated/"doomed" noise is a defensive fiction. Nothing was taken out of context (does anyone actually disagree with the observation that Apple has lost the focus on software quality?). Nothing was exaggerated. If anything the issues with Apple software quality lately have hugely been under-stated: My children all refuse to use the Mac Mini because it is, by far, the most issue-prone device in the house. The iPad now sits on its charger all day.

Marco was sad because his words were used by "the other side". It is as simple as that (as others have said, it's a "tribal" mentality). Criticisms are okay if they're kept in house, but make sure you don't let the neighbors hear.

Which is an extraordinary situation. I can't imagine a single parallel to this where so many are so fearful of upsetting their tribe of literally tens of millions of people. Maybe in North Korea?

Re: Fear of Apple

#64

Post by matheweis » Tue, Mar 24, 2015, 5:41 PM UTC

smackfu wrote: post #15

This is the same Apple who has a published document saying: "If your App is rejected, we have a Review Board that you can appeal to. If you run to the press and trash us, it never helps." https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ When this company controls your livelihood, you are wise to take a very broad view of what "trash us" means.

This really does echo what Schneier said about us returning to a feudalistic society. https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/12/feudal_sec.ht...

Although his context was for users, I think the same thing applies to developers.

Re: Fear of Apple

#65

Post by akfanta » Tue, Mar 24, 2015, 5:42 PM UTC

JimmaDaRustla wrote: post #40

I got banned from theverge.com for suggesting that celebrities' Apple ID passwords may have been cracked by a brute force vulnerability with iCloud. Permanent ban, no explanation, no e-mail. The fishiest part, someone (not verge staff) replied to my comment saying "enjoy your ban". I've been weirded out by the power and bias of Apple employees and/or fans ever since.

I don't know. Are you sure you didn't violate any other rules? The Verge might be close to Apple, but I doubt you'd get banned just because of that.

Re: Fear of Apple

#66

Post by nothrabannosir » Tue, Mar 24, 2015, 5:42 PM UTC

shimfish wrote: post #24

While I agree with the basic thrust of the article (Apple is not your friend, is often vindictive in response to criticism and could do more to help developers), I always feel when reading App Store articles that there's quite an odd underlying assumption, namely that Apple somehow owes all developers a living and has it within its power to achieve this if only it wanted. Please correct me if my history is wrong but…

I don't think there is (always) this assumption. For example, the author in this article tries to focus on the objective issues with the App Store, rather than who owes whom what. Perhaps not perfectly, but, afai can see, he tries.

Sure, Apple being the gatekeeper, it's easy to take criticism of the App Store as criticism of Apple. It's also easy to slip into criticizing Apple while criticizing the App Store. Fundamentally, however, while similar, the two are not the same. It depends on what conclusion you draw. Which is it: "Boo Apple, fix your store," or "Boo developers, boycott iOS until they fix the store!"

However, boycotting becomes less realistic the longer the feedback loop gets. I can stop buying some kind of milk brand tomorrow, and pick up the day after. Deciding what platform to publish apps on is an entirely different ball game. In that light, the unviability of any "free market" alternatives we as devs have to combat Apple on this makes it look very much like a monopoly, and that holds weight as an argument against Apple (not just against the App Store).

Yeah, they technically don't owe us anything, but no, the playing field is too uneven for that to just be the end of the story.

Re: Fear of Apple

#67

Post by dublinben » Tue, Mar 24, 2015, 5:43 PM UTC

JimmaDaRustla wrote: post #40

I got banned from theverge.com for suggesting that celebrities' Apple ID passwords may have been cracked by a brute force vulnerability with iCloud. Permanent ban, no explanation, no e-mail. The fishiest part, someone (not verge staff) replied to my comment saying "enjoy your ban". I've been weirded out by the power and bias of Apple employees and/or fans ever since.

Do you know of any technology news sites that aren't as obviously partisan and pro-Apple? It's pretty clear from the volume and depth of Apple coverage that most sites are dominated by Apple fans among their staff and leadership.

Re: Fear of Apple

#68

Post by declan » Tue, Mar 24, 2015, 5:44 PM UTC

engendered wrote: post #58

gress wrote: post #2

This piece ignores the obvious. These people aren't afraid of their own criticisms of Apple. They are afraid that their criticisms will be magnified and distorted by the press and used as the basis of hit-pieces, and that this will reflect badly on them. This isn't fear of Apple. It's legitimate fear of what the press will do with what they say.

They are afraid that their criticisms will be magnified and distorted by the press and used as the basis of hit-pieces Hardly. Many Apple fans still operate as if it is some tiny, vulnerable niche company, and they're a member of the few . Perhaps this is some sort of traumatic stress of those early days, but it manifests in this feeling of great discomfort if your words are used "against" the hive. Arment, significa…

I've been an Apple user since the IIe days, and I remember the tiny, vulnerable niche company it was very well. But as you say:

"Apple now twice as big as world's second-largest company, ExxonMobil" http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnol...

Re: Fear of Apple

#69

Post by usaphp » Tue, Mar 24, 2015, 5:46 PM UTC

firloop wrote: post #56

This article summarizes the epitome of my experience as an Apple developer. I'm 17 years old and a developer on the app store. The App Store feels opaque and like a black box where I submit builds with little to no feedback or control. I get paid when Apple decides, and could be eradicated from the App Store at a moment's notice. I realized early on that being featured by Apple was unlikely, and have adopted a sustai…

Those who purchase your apps are paying to Apple, why would YOU send them a refund? If they want a refund they have to figure that out with a marketplace not a seller.

Re: Fear of Apple

#70

Post by forgottenpass » Tue, Mar 24, 2015, 5:49 PM UTC

JimmaDaRustla wrote: post #40

I got banned from theverge.com for suggesting that celebrities' Apple ID passwords may have been cracked by a brute force vulnerability with iCloud. Permanent ban, no explanation, no e-mail. The fishiest part, someone (not verge staff) replied to my comment saying "enjoy your ban". I've been weirded out by the power and bias of Apple employees and/or fans ever since.

The fishiest part, someone (not verge staff) replied to my comment saying "enjoy your ban".

I wouldn't put too much thought into that. It's probably just someone that knows the unspoken rules better than you do. You see the same sort of flippant "enjoy your ban" posts on neogaf if someone transgresses the unwritten rule of getting within two or three degrees of separation from an unpopular opinion on a hotbutton political issue.