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Global warming is now slowing down the circulation of the oceans

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Global warming is now slowing down the circulation of the oceans

#21

Post by KevinEldon »

padobson wrote: post #19

I've never been fully convinced of anthropomorphic climate change. There's just too much politics involved for me to be convinced of such relatively recent studies. That said, I'll convert all of my energy sources to PV cells tomorrow if someone gives me a way to do it without mortgaging the next ten years of my life.

A colleague of mine in Sacramento has installed solar power and expects to recover the investment in 6 years. If you're serious about using solar it seems like something that's achievable without mortgaging your life.

Re: Global warming is now slowing down the circulation of the oceans

#22

Post by sgt101 »

padobson wrote: post #19

I've never been fully convinced of anthropomorphic climate change. There's just too much politics involved for me to be convinced of such relatively recent studies. That said, I'll convert all of my energy sources to PV cells tomorrow if someone gives me a way to do it without mortgaging the next ten years of my life.

Rather than looking at the politics perhaps you could look at the science?

What would it take to convince you? Seriously - if nothing can then we have departed from rational debate, but if there is evidence that would sway you then it would be great to identify it.

Re: Global warming is now slowing down the circulation of the oceans

#23

Post by ptaipale »

lugg wrote: post #18
zurn wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually the average western/US CO2 footprint is so big, that it's very doable to fit yourself and a child in after you cut down on luxuries. Of course "use AC less" and "use electric cars" are not the kinds of changes that will get you there. More like no meat, no car, no flights, no grid powered AC etc. Offsetting your baby's lifetime CO2 footprint is actually very affordable even with the average US figure. For a…

One decent flight is more than pretty much everything else combined, people forget this far too much. Most of the people that try to offset their footprint are the same damn people that feel the need to fly around the world every couple of years. For lack of a more credible source, http://www.theguardian.com/environment/blog/2010/sep/09/carb...

For a slightly more provocative example for what is a "decent" flight, see http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-01-21/billionair...

“America’s lifestyle expectations are far too high and need to be adjusted so we have less things and a smaller, better existence,” Greene said in an interview today at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. “We need to reinvent our whole system of life.”

This was said by "Greene, who flew his wife, children and two nannies on a private jet plane to Davos for the week".

OK, he not only made a speech but also had a dinner with Tony Blair so it wasn't just for that speech.

Re: Global warming is now slowing down the circulation of the oceans

#24

Post by happyscrappy »

lugg wrote: post #18
zurn wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually the average western/US CO2 footprint is so big, that it's very doable to fit yourself and a child in after you cut down on luxuries. Of course "use AC less" and "use electric cars" are not the kinds of changes that will get you there. More like no meat, no car, no flights, no grid powered AC etc. Offsetting your baby's lifetime CO2 footprint is actually very affordable even with the average US figure. For a…

One decent flight is more than pretty much everything else combined, people forget this far too much. Most of the people that try to offset their footprint are the same damn people that feel the need to fly around the world every couple of years. For lack of a more credible source, http://www.theguardian.com/environment/blog/2010/sep/09/carb...

So the TSA is harassing those who are ruining the planet.

Re: Global warming is now slowing down the circulation of the oceans

#25

Post by pyre »

happyscrappy wrote: post #24
lugg wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One decent flight is more than pretty much everything else combined, people forget this far too much. Most of the people that try to offset their footprint are the same damn people that feel the need to fly around the world every couple of years. For lack of a more credible source, http://www.theguardian.com/environment/blog/2010/sep/09/carb...

So the TSA is harassing those who are ruining the planet.

They're doing God's work! /s

Re: Global warming is now slowing down the circulation of the oceans

#26

Post by pyre »

briandear wrote: post #9
facepalm wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why the assumption that your actions could have an impact on the world is ridiculous?

It's a matter of degree. Pissing in the ocean changes the PH, however the question would be, to what degree? The question isn't if humans impact climate, it's how much do they impact the climate. The answer to that is far from 'settled science.'

With complex systems, you will never have irrefutable proof of much. If you're waiting for something air-tight, it will never happen.

Re: Global warming is now slowing down the circulation of the oceans

#27

Post by pyre »

nashashmi wrote: post #16

I like to think of these and other effects from global warming as the planet's system of healing. The warmer the climate gets, the more ways it tries to heals, and the more damage happens as a result. If I were to apply that theory here, how is this "slow-down" part of that process?

The planet isn't an organism with an immune system reacting to infections. It's a ball of rock that "couldn't care less" if there are beings living on it. The systems that exist on the surface of the planet are just physical processes reacting to other physical processes. Nothing more. Ocean currents aren't changing as part of a process of "healing" they are changing because they are governed by the laws of physics.

Re: Global warming is now slowing down the circulation of the oceans

#28

Post by stinos »

According to the National Climatic Data Center, the world just saw its warmest winter ever…except for in one spot in the north Atlantic ocean (the deepest blue color above), which set a record for cold. Which is not good. (NCDC)

These new NOAA data got me quite worried because they indicate that this partial recovery that we describe in the paper was only temporary, and the circulation is on the way down again

Honest question: is such a small data point (a couple of months) for something relatively slow (climate change) really something to worry about? Suppose I call it an outlier (which I can't because I cannot look into the future), wouldn't that be equally wrong?

Re: Global warming is now slowing down the circulation of the oceans

#29

Post by gus_massa »

onion2k wrote: post #10
codeshaman wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The results end up overhyped, overblown, and for soundbites like press releases and Nature papers. This just misinforms people. I understand the scientist's desire for rigour, but ... Most people won't bother reading the article at all. If it's up-voted or liked enough, the title is the truth. We all do it. We all accept a sentence as truth if we trust the source enough, without checking the facts. It's impossible…

It doesn't matter what the truth is, it matters what you believe the truth to be. The truth doesn't matter, nor does what you believe. The only thing that actually matters is how you act. You could happily say that there's only a 0.0001% chance that humanity is affecting climate change, but if that's enough to get you to stop doing things that might harm the planet just in case then that's brilliant. The most importa…

Before banning something because it may have a 0.0001% chance of being bad for the Earth's climate, you should be sure that it doesn't have a 0.0002% chance of being good for the Earth's climate.

That's why you need science and proof to try to know the truth, or at least do the best effort. If you don't care about the truth you can use Tarot cards or Ouija tables, that are cheaper and least wasteful than a bunch of Ph.D. that just want to put buoys and launch satellites to measure everything.

Re: Global warming is now slowing down the circulation of the oceans

#30

Post by happyscrappy »

pyre wrote: post #27
nashashmi wrote: post #16

I like to think of these and other effects from global warming as the planet's system of healing. The warmer the climate gets, the more ways it tries to heals, and the more damage happens as a result. If I were to apply that theory here, how is this "slow-down" part of that process?

The planet isn't an organism with an immune system reacting to infections. It's a ball of rock that "couldn't care less" if there are beings living on it. The systems that exist on the surface of the planet are just physical processes reacting to other physical processes. Nothing more. Ocean currents aren't changing as part of a process of "healing" they are changing because they are governed by the laws of physics.

That is not completely true, virtually all the oxygen on Earth came from bacteria. Life interacts with physics.
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