The fact that it's CNNIC that has issued these dangerous certificates is not exactly relevant to the problem at hand; More than one root authority has made mistakes in delegation, and several have made the mistake of not checking the delegation bit and allowing third-parties to request intermediate certificates. Still, it bears repeating that CNNIC, which is effectively a branch of the chinese government, has a root…
Is there a tool/script that will: 1) list the root auths I have installed per browser 2) give me an idea of where they are relevant 3) let me deauthorize them? If not, can someone make this? :)
Google warns of unauthorized TLS certificates trusted by almost all OSes
51–60 of 76 posts
Re: Google warns of unauthorized TLS certificates trusted by almost all OSes
#52I've always had the suspicion that my pc had some sketchy certs installed.. what do ya expect from buying a pc with an OS installed from an electronics retailer..right?
I'm pretty sure it's a default install in Windows, so the retailer doesn't really make a difference.
Re: Google warns of unauthorized TLS certificates trusted by almost all OSes
#53Re: Google warns of unauthorized TLS certificates trusted by almost all OSes
#54Just revoking the intermediates is not enough. This tells the main culprits that it's ok to issue intermediates to do whatever and then deny responsibility as it gets detected. The only possible course of action is to hold the root responsible and to remove them from the trust store. The CA system is fragile enough as it is and only the prospects of immediately going out of business can be any deterrent for CAs not t…
It looks that even CNNIC certs themselves weren't widely deployed, correct me if I'm wrong, most of Chinese sites who wants to employ TLS doesn't do it right, for example, 12306 has its own root and some sites I use daily has a self-signed CA with random input in all of the fields.
Re: Google warns of unauthorized TLS certificates trusted by almost all OSes
#55Just revoking the intermediates is not enough. This tells the main culprits that it's ok to issue intermediates to do whatever and then deny responsibility as it gets detected. The only possible course of action is to hold the root responsible and to remove them from the trust store. The CA system is fragile enough as it is and only the prospects of immediately going out of business can be any deterrent for CAs not t…
I have marked CNNIC root cert untrusted on all of systems I can control. It bothers me sometimes when some providers with "good" reputation uses them, like azure china. I had to manually add the server certificate to trusted list, just to manage my vms. Otherwise, I barely notice the issue. It looks that even CNNIC certs themselves weren't widely deployed, correct me if I'm wrong, most of Chinese sites who wants to e…
Microsoft has proven again and again that it's willing to make any concessions to the Chinese government if there's the slightest chance of them making an extra percent market share in China. We saw that when Google was hacked by the Chinese government, too. Microsoft was more than happy to agree to all the censorship policies Google didn't, because it meant that maybe possibly that would earn them some market share in China, after Google would be gone - it didn't anyway. Baidu took all that difference Google lost.
Re: Google warns of unauthorized TLS certificates trusted by almost all OSes
#56I wonder if there is such unauthorized certs in Firefox manager.
Re: Google warns of unauthorized TLS certificates trusted by almost all OSes
#57Re: Google warns of unauthorized TLS certificates trusted by almost all OSes
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
> These attacks might be "detectable" after they've happened, but so what? So was this one. Damage will have been done. Well, in this particular case, there was presumably an intention to conduct the MITM long term. Buying a Palo Alto Networks device, paying for a (fairly expensive!) unconstrained intermediate, and being able to MITM a connection for a few hours is not very useful. There are certainly attackers who w…
> I don't see why the CA wouldn't immediately query logs for all certificates that chain off of their intermediates, to verify that intermediates are only used in the way that people said they'd be used. That's unlikely to happen (I suspect) because the amount of data that would need to be processed would be significant. Each CA would have to effectively mirror all of the logs out there, and the logs impose rate limi…
Hrrrm. The data in a log is public; the act of logging needs to be done by the log server, but all output (STHes, audit proofs, etc.) is signed, and thus can be mirrored. A log could just push copies of its data elsewhere instead of self-hosting
For this specific use case, I'd imagine that at least some of the logs would be willing to push data to CAs. If we're really worried about this, demanding that logs push data to CAs doesn't seem like an onerous requirement to add to CT. (This starts to resemble MS's Certificate Translucency^WReputation.)
I have no personal investment in CT as the spec exists (I'm just an end-user); if there are realistic changes that would make it more robust I think we should push for them. (Another easy change that would rule out some of the attacks you're worried about is a mandatory 2×MMD delay on certificate issuance, at least for domains that have opted into such a delay, but this seems obvious enough that I assume people have already thought about its pros and cons.)
Naively, distributing log data seems like the same sort of problem as making a blockchain highly available (whether we're talking about Namecoin's, or Bitcoin's, or anyone else's). I'm not well-versed in how blockchains work at the protocol level; does DDoS cause problems there too?
> Are you referring to the connection between clients and DNSChain or a blockchain and its network?
I'm assuming that, in a scenario like the one at hand here (a corporation wanting to MITM all its traffic), the victims are using the attacker's DNS server and are blocked from using any others. That's pretty common, even in places that don't try to MITM your SSL connections; the sort of appliance at issue here can also do things like block known phishing/malware sites, but not try to modify or log your traffic. In a DNSChain world, perhaps that DNS server will speak the DNSChain protocol, but lie about things to the extent that it can (it sounds like it can make arbitrary changes!???). Or if each client runs a DNSChain resolver itself, the attacker will intercept all blockchain traffic and lie about that to the extent it can.
I think I buy that you can notice that the block difficulty is suddenly remaining constant and there's something unusual with that. I'd be worried that a network-wide formal specification would have to account for, say, a good part of the network getting bored and the hash rate actually dropping, causing a worldwide DoS. But intuitively, it seems good enough.
I don't think the UX concerns are particularly different between DNSChain and something more traditional and CT-like, are they? For DNSChain resolvers on a firewalled network, someone needs to relay blockchain activity or the resolver will shut itself down; if you can do that, you can also relay CT log activity (which must be re-signed every MMD), browser updates, CRLset pushes, etc. and maintain liveness.
Re: Google warns of unauthorized TLS certificates trusted by almost all OSes
#59Defenders of current system for acquiring and and revoking TLS certificates have recent chafed in response to statements from this author that it's hopelessly broken. Besides remembering that almost all of these critics have a strong financial interest in the way the system works now
"chafed" because of this:
https://twitter.com/ivanristic/status/578536108662861824
So Ristic working for ssllabs automatically disqualifies him from asking the perfectly valid question "What is a better approach, in your opinion?"..
You still like your Goodin, tptacek? ;)