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See-Through Solar Is Tomorrow’s Threat to Oil

bloomberg.com

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Re: See-Through Solar Is Tomorrow’s Threat to Oil

#31

Post by dpierce9 »

experiment0 wrote: post #11

We are already struggling to make low cost solar panels that have a high efficiency using light absorbed from the visible spectrum (which accounts for most of the sun's spectral irradiation [1]). Furthermore, you can't just have solar cells that absorb a wide range of the solar spectrum, there is an optimum band gap for these materials of around 1.34 eV [2]. This means that the most popular solar cells in development…

This is a great point. We shouldn't ignore other efficiencies though. When used on the building envelope, light energy that would otherwise heat the building is converted into electricity instead. Assuming a reasonable efficiency for the conductors and inverters, this reduces the overall building demand. Even small reductions in demand can have huge price benefits for wholesale electricity buyers during expensive summer months (i.e. large commercial buildings). Hence, even if these panels are less efficient than opaque panels (and really how could they not be?) there may be other ways they can make sense from both energy savings and cost perspectives.

Re: See-Through Solar Is Tomorrow’s Threat to Oil

#32

Post by cagenut »

joshuaheard wrote: post #8

Only about half of oil production goes to energy and transportation. The other half goes to production of synthetic materials like plastic. Look around you, oil production is not going away any time soon.

this is not even remotely true

http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=34&t=6

Re: See-Through Solar Is Tomorrow’s Threat to Oil

#33

Post by antr »

experiment0 wrote: post #27
higherpurpose wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As they say in the video, even if these are half as efficient as regular solar panels, you could still see them on other types of surfaces where current solar panels can't be used right now: think windows or smartphone screens. We could also see them on large buildings or rich people's villas whose owners perhaps want to use energy from solar panels, but don't like the "look" of solar panels on those buildings. So th…

We really don't have a shortage of space to put solar panels. The challenge is making solar panels that are cost effective (e.g. $ per Watt). In response to your edit: That is a possibility, that yes they may find a niche in the fancy of the rich. But the point I'm making is that the article is hyperbolic and misleading. Transparent solar is not the future of utility scale power generation. It is not going to solve a…

Volume is key. Volume to push price of silicon panels down to have electricity reach grid parity levels. An intesting project (which I think has been ditched or put on hold) is/was DESERTEC. Install thousands of PV pannels in the Sahara dessert, and connect this to energy-hungry Europe thorugh a new HVDC grid connection.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertec

Re: See-Through Solar Is Tomorrow’s Threat to Oil

#34

Post by yessql »

dpierce9 wrote: post #31
experiment0 wrote: post #11

We are already struggling to make low cost solar panels that have a high efficiency using light absorbed from the visible spectrum (which accounts for most of the sun's spectral irradiation [1]). Furthermore, you can't just have solar cells that absorb a wide range of the solar spectrum, there is an optimum band gap for these materials of around 1.34 eV [2]. This means that the most popular solar cells in development…

This is a great point. We shouldn't ignore other efficiencies though. When used on the building envelope, light energy that would otherwise heat the building is converted into electricity instead. Assuming a reasonable efficiency for the conductors and inverters, this reduces the overall building demand. Even small reductions in demand can have huge price benefits for wholesale electricity buyers during expensive sum…

Now your window needs wiring. And an inverter. Would be more effective to coat it or tint it or put up some blinds.

Re: See-Through Solar Is Tomorrow’s Threat to Oil

#35

Post by barney54 »

diafygi wrote: post #21

> See-Through Solar Is Tomorrow’s Threat to Oil > ...screens and windows that soak up light could power your home or your phone These two things don't compute. Oil is mostly used for mobile energy, and solar is mostly used for stationary energy. However... I work in solar, and solar is a threat to oil. Why? Not because of transparent photovoltaics, but because it and batteries are getting so goddamn cheap. The Depart…

Entrepreneurs have realized this, but energy is far more difficult than people will admit. Even if this works and is cheap, the real issue is batteries. Batteries are expensive and their manufacture entails environmental costs. There is no free ride. Yes, Tesla wants to reduce the price of batteries, but that doesn't make it so.

If this works you need many multiples of battery capacity as production. That is a staggering amount of batteries. And batteries don't have a long life. How is the battery life on a 10 year old computer?

Re: See-Through Solar Is Tomorrow’s Threat to Oil

#36

Post by yessql »

explorigin wrote: post #6

Good solar cells are 40ish% efficient? I'm not a photonics engineer but I wonder how much of the total energy is in the visible range. Current solar cells are only cost-effective in limited scenarios, it's nice that these could go in more places but even if they reach cost parity with what we have today, the would be less power. We're going to need to see huge reductions in production cost or energy capture before th…

Good research lab solar cells are 40% when actively cooled and concentrating light at 1000x.

Good solar panels for homes and solar farms are 15 to 22% efficient.

Re: See-Through Solar Is Tomorrow’s Threat to Oil

#37

Post by copsarebastards »

The only threat to oil is government subsidies going to renewables instead of oil. I'm not saying that solar technologies aren't important, but the technology will fall into place when the money is there. Solar is already able to compete with oil with subsidies favoring oil, so solar technology is already good enough. Of course better tech is better, but we don't need better tech to kill oil, we need better distribution of funds.

Re: See-Through Solar Is Tomorrow’s Threat to Oil

#39

Post by freehunter »

yessql wrote: post #34
dpierce9 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great point. We shouldn't ignore other efficiencies though. When used on the building envelope, light energy that would otherwise heat the building is converted into electricity instead. Assuming a reasonable efficiency for the conductors and inverters, this reduces the overall building demand. Even small reductions in demand can have huge price benefits for wholesale electricity buyers during expensive sum…

Now your window needs wiring. And an inverter. Would be more effective to coat it or tint it or put up some blinds.

Why couldn't you collect the solar energy from the outside of the window and put up blinds to block the light from the inside of the window? Putting up blinds won't generate any electricity.

Re: See-Through Solar Is Tomorrow’s Threat to Oil

#40

Post by TeMPOraL »

dangravell wrote: post #24
TeMPOraL wrote: post #15

Does this tech, or even regular PVs, break-even energy-wise? I.e. do they produce more energy during their life-time than it takes to create them? Because if not, then a widespread deployment will only make our problems worse. EDIT: thanks for replies!

Regular PV breaks even with ease, assuming sensible use of the panels (e.g. don't mount them in the shade, mount them the right way around, don't smash them up etc). Look up "embodied energy".

Thanks very much for the term "embodied energy" - now I know how what to google for!
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