Live data from Hacker News

The decline of Vancouver

sofard.tumblr.com

151–160 of 161 posts

Re: The decline of Vancouver

#151
post #92

I live in Vancouver, and have for many years.. as such, I hope I can try and help inform an otherwise misinformed set of posts. I suspect they're off-base largely because a lot has changed since some of the authors of other posts have lived here. First, there are many technology companies in Vancouver. Hootsuite, Bench, A Thinking Ape, Clio, Slack, Amazon.. these are just the ones that came to mind. I know authoritat…

> The downtown core is one of the few places in the world where people live and work in the same area... > commutes range from 5-30 minutes (and that's going to cover people who walk, bike and take transit). So, in general, it is like a classical European city, where the streets are even full of life after the end of the workday? If that’s true, than this is actually amazing. And creates the new question: Why did it…

Vancouver is surrounded on three sides by the sea, snow-capped mountains, and the U.S. border. Copious amounts of prime real estate are also set aside for Stanley Park, UBC, and the airport. There's some sprawl toward the South (right up to the border) and East (inland), but the downtown core itself is physically incapable of getting any bigger than it was 100 years ago.

It's somewhat like downtown San Francisco, except Vancouver is even smaller. No point in downtown Vancouver is more than 1 mile from water. This helps keep everything within walking distance.

Compare this to, say, Los Angeles, where there's not much to stop the city from expanding in every direction.

Re: The decline of Vancouver

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was living in Vancouver until I moved to Waterloo for University, and will be graduating in a few months. It seems like everyone here is comparing Vancouver with US tech hubs like Seattle and SF, when there's a much more comparable target: Toronto. Of course, this is anecdotal, but for every one of my 6 co-op terms in Waterloo, I always made finding a job in Vancouver one of my highest priorities, but in the end I…

A friend of mine who works for blackberry in mississauga feels otherwise about TO, he said the highest paying tech jobs are mostly in financial industry. You're definitely right that housing price is affordable in TO but there are people who still want to go back and prefer Vancouver over TO. They don't mind to pay more for the quality of living in Vancouver.

I'm not sure about high-paying jobs (during my search, I've found the average salary to be in the same ballpark for Vancouver vs Toronto). But in terms of sheer number of interesting companies and opportunities, I've found Toronto to be superior by a large margin.

If you take a look at the AngelList jobs board (https://angel.co/salaries), you can see triple the number of postings in Toronto vs Vancouver, and more than triple of those that pay 60k+. This is by no means completely representative, but I believe it's good indication of a much more vibrant startup scene, and my job search experience so far seems to confirm this (despite being biased towards Vancouver due to personal preference).

Re: The decline of Vancouver

#153
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference between Vancouver and SF/London/NYC is that it has no accompanying income boom to make the real estate prices affordable for working people. There's no significant financial or tech industry. Nobody gets rich from working in Vancouver. In fact, Vancouver tech jobs generally pay _less_ than other Canadian cities despite the greatly higher cost of living.

Vancouver firms can offer less pay because there aren't many alternatives when it comes to Canadian cities for a tech worker. Let's see...Toronto, Montreal, Waterloo and Calgary. And the winter weather east of the Rockies is horrible.

Victoria?

Re: The decline of Vancouver

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook / Microsoft is here too but they hire almost no Canadians, most are foreigners, until they can get the green light to work in the States. Amazon is the only one hiring locally but I often find that they just advertise positions but never really end up hiring

Amazon does hire local talents. I know a few people there.

I know someone there, too, but I have also been scouted a few times by folks looking to have me move from Toronto to Vancouver (something I’m not willing to do for a lot of reasons).

Re: The decline of Vancouver

#155

Kudos to this article for pointing out the problem: absentee foreign investors, often laundering dirty money. Real estate in the most desirable cities is becoming the 21st century's Nazi Gold: stolen wealth that is parked in another country, and with too many third-party beneficiaries who refuse to do the right thing. Here's another factor that doesn't get much play: price inelasticity. Consider the 1970s oil crises.…

Now is a golden opportunity for Canada to take action on the laundered money in Vancouver. Xi Jinping is taking major steps to stomp out corruption in China and would likely be a partner. The problem is that there is likely some corruption and bribing going on in Canada as well, thus nothing is being done about this issue.

In virtually all societies, land owners tend to hold more power than younger people and renters. So far the land owners are doing well from this.

Re: The decline of Vancouver

#156

Kudos to this article for pointing out the problem: absentee foreign investors, often laundering dirty money. Real estate in the most desirable cities is becoming the 21st century's Nazi Gold: stolen wealth that is parked in another country, and with too many third-party beneficiaries who refuse to do the right thing. Here's another factor that doesn't get much play: price inelasticity. Consider the 1970s oil crises.…

Now is a golden opportunity for Canada to take action on the laundered money in Vancouver. Xi Jinping is taking major steps to stomp out corruption in China and would likely be a partner. The problem is that there is likely some corruption and bribing going on in Canada as well, thus nothing is being done about this issue.

Xi Jinping is taking major steps to stomp out corruption

No, he's just doing the same thing every Chinese leader since Mao has done, using anti-corruption measures as a weapon to smite his own political enemies.

Xi and his own family are as corrupt as anyone. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-06-29/xi-jinping...

Re: The decline of Vancouver

#157
This article could have been written replacing the words Canada and Vancouver by resp. Australia and Sydney. It is exactly the same thing happening in Aus. Australia introduced that significant investor visa program which the facts show that it is about 90% of PRC people coming in with their clean or not so clean money. Investment, in the context of this visa scheme, is mostly about property speculation. Property prices in Sydney are very high and locals and migrants who work here cannot afford. The government introduced negative gearing to help to inflate that property bubble. As in Canada, Australia agreed to co operate with the Chinese gov to help track those Chinese who run away with all their dirty money, which almost always end up in property. I am renting now and have been inspecting units for a year as I wanted to buy. At any inspection I went, other people walking in were mostly PRC. not australian asians. you can tell from their strong accent. Whenever I made an offer, above the asking price, there was a chinese to outbid by like 10% the price of the unit. You sometimes hear sick conversations between the potential buyer and the agent like once that young PRC girl who asked the agent : "I already have 2 units here and am planning to buy another one; if I buy this one can I still get the first home owner grant ?" (I really heard that I'm not joking). Few times, at the end of an inspection, when I would ask questions to the agent, he would answer me : "I have a call scheduled tonight with the owner in china, I will ask him". if they really want to track the dirty money pouring in Australia, it's not that hard. You see houses that sell for $3 million whereas they sold for $1.5 million only exactly one year earlier. In Sydney inner west, I can see every day luxury cars driven by young chinese kids. Seriously the guy does not even have pubic hair yet and he's driving a custom bentley. There are parts of the city that do not necessarily look luxurious : no luxury goods shops around, average condition roads, very few shops and restaurants, though you feel like you are in monaco when you look at the cars around.

I don't know what can be done about it. Wish for a serious financial crash in china, or wish for the politics to really mean what they say, or wish for a lot more crime (which would encourage those people to look elsewhere to spend their money), or find ways to move to smaller towns where all that dirty money has not been yet and property is still available ?

Re: The decline of Vancouver

#158
post #13

I've lived in Vancouver. There are really only three industries: (dodgy) junior mining, retail, and real estate. Property is bought by absentee owners who take supply out of the market, drive up prices, but do not contribute to the economy. The city is more expensive than NY without the amenities (except the outdoors), culture, or opportunity. The city should be Canada's powerhouse but it's turned into a high price v…

Property is bought by absentee owners who take supply out of the market, drive up prices, but do not contribute to the economy. I've heard that said many times without any hard stats behind it. How many absentee purchasers would it take to drive prices up? What about the effects of low interest rates and everyone desiring to get in the market before it gets hotter? Everyone seems to be an expert on this, and I highly…

How do you expect there to be stats about this? You don't have to register somewhere that you're an absentee owner.

Re: The decline of Vancouver

#159
post #142

All the money flooding into Vancouver is the results of billions and billions of dollars flooding out the U.S trade deficit, hitting China, and boomeranging back into hard assets all over the world.

Insightful comment buried again. +1

Because it doesn't add much value. Most/all western countries have a trade deficit, especially with China, these days. So what? Are we going to propose that the solution to fixing Vancouver is "achieve US trade surplus" and "stop rich Chinese people existing"

Re: The decline of Vancouver

#160
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insightful comment buried again. +1

Because it doesn't add much value. Most/all western countries have a trade deficit, especially with China, these days. So what? Are we going to propose that the solution to fixing Vancouver is "achieve US trade surplus" and "stop rich Chinese people existing"

Viewing the issue from a more macro perspective is way less appreciated here. Micro and macro perspectives are both essential to have a deeper understanding before there is some kind of methodology to unify every dimension (the possibility for this happening is really low in social science, and economics is considered as social science by some). It's just my personal point of view and my own preference. Also, it's not easy to propose a nice solution without taking the systemic limit into account. People are prone to enjoy debating on symptoms instead digging deeper to find those causes. I myself find many comments in the lower half are more valuable. The byproduct of HN's comments seems a better fit for me. However, without the existence of major upvoted comments, there would be no such byproduct.
Post reply on HN