Ask HN: Career Advice. Grad School vs. Industry?

#1

Post by chuie » Sun, Mar 22, 2015, 7:04 PM UTC

I am a developer (1 year experience) at a startup that may be coming to the end of its runway at the end of April. I knew this had the potential to happen, so I thought I would send out applications to PhD programs in the domain I work in (Computational Biology) as a way to manage risk (and a bit to prove to myself that I had what it takes to get in). I've been accepted to a top 10 program and I have to now decide if grad school is really a good idea for me. The other developers I work with are really brilliant and successful guys, half of whom have no formal education beyond a sprinkling of undergraduate classes, who think you can scratch that curiosity itch without going to school. As an engineer, their philosophy of just putting rubber to the road instead of worrying about degrees is something I really admire. If my career goals are to work in bioinformatics/computational biology startups as a software developer, and possibly start my own if inspiration takes me, would going to grad school be a worthwhile investment?

I have been struggling with this decision a lot, so any insight/advice at all would be greatly appreciated.

Re: Ask HN: Career Advice. Grad School vs. Industry?

#2

Post by dekhn » Sun, Mar 22, 2015, 7:10 PM UTC

I went straight to grad school (biophysics, top 10 program) after undergrad. Although it meant 7 years of being poorly paid, and giving up on many great opportunities (like working for Yahoo pre-IPO) I think it really did pay off in the long term. Although I'm a software engineer, my research background has opened up a ton of extra opportunities (like being an advisor for a Venture Capital group, carrying out independent research, and generally having a larger range of job opportunities than otherwise).

The downside is, you won't make a lot of money, and as a grad student, you will have to keep your PhD advisor happy, and it takes a ton of work to get things published so that you can graduate. I know a lot of great people who burned out in the process.

I don't think you can learn advanced bio research by just poking around curiously. You have to be deeply embedded amongst people doing state of the art research for years to develop the knowledge and skills to contribute.

Re: Ask HN: Career Advice. Grad School vs. Industry?

#3

Post by mathgeek » Sun, Mar 22, 2015, 7:32 PM UTC

Do whichever feels right: going for more education will open you up to different jobs, but going into industry will get you 5+ more years of income (which includes retirement savings, doing fun things that cost money, etc.).

Don't forget that you also are going to usually wait longer to have a family if you go to grad school, although not always. That might be a bigger deal breaker than you might realize right now, so think about it.

Re: Ask HN: Career Advice. Grad School vs. Industry?

#4

Post by Blackthorn » Mon, Mar 23, 2015, 1:03 AM UTC

I have a PhD in computer engineering. I regret it.

Unless you're really into research on a particularly narrow topic for 3+ years (and not a topic of your choice, one of your advisor's choice), you don't want to do a PhD and should stay away. Take the four extra years of income instead.

On a slightly different note, every PhD I know, self included, has a story about how they almost failed out of or otherwise left graduate school if not for some serendipitous event. I have yet to meet someone who doesn't have such a story.

Re: Ask HN: Career Advice. Grad School vs. Industry?

#5

Post by seanmcdirmid » Mon, Mar 23, 2015, 1:10 AM UTC

Blackthorn wrote: post #4

I have a PhD in computer engineering. I regret it. Unless you're really into research on a particularly narrow topic for 3+ years (and not a topic of your choice, one of your advisor's choice), you don't want to do a PhD and should stay away. Take the four extra years of income instead. On a slightly different note, every PhD I know, self included, has a story about how they almost failed out of or otherwise left gra…

> On a slightly different note, every PhD I know, self included, has a story about how they almost failed out of or otherwise left graduate school if not for some serendipitous event. I have yet to meet someone who doesn't have such a story.

Ya, neither have I.

The PhD for me was a personal journey that I'm better off personally for taking. It hasn't made me much richer, however (no one should go to grad school for the money!). Also, getting a PhD should NEVER be your plan B.

Re: Ask HN: Career Advice. Grad School vs. Industry?

#6

Post by hbhakhra » Mon, Mar 23, 2015, 1:47 AM UTC

In general I would say skip graduate school for CS. However, for your specific field, I would say do it. I did undergrad in CS + premed. I started doing some research in bioinformatics. I ended up getting a normal CS job. What I realized while looking for a bioinformatics job was that a masters at least was a requirement.

The thing with this field is that there is so much requisite domain knowledge, unlike traditional CS which is more skill. I would say if you are committed to Computational Biology then go get your PhD and it will greatly increase your chances of success. Again, if you want a normal CS career, skip the PhD, if you want a career in Computational Biology, get it.

Re: Ask HN: Career Advice. Grad School vs. Industry?

#7

Post by slopnv » Mon, Mar 23, 2015, 1:56 AM UTC

dekhn wrote: post #2

I went straight to grad school (biophysics, top 10 program) after undergrad. Although it meant 7 years of being poorly paid, and giving up on many great opportunities (like working for Yahoo pre-IPO) I think it really did pay off in the long term. Although I'm a software engineer, my research background has opened up a ton of extra opportunities (like being an advisor for a Venture Capital group, carrying out indepen…

Based from your experience as an advisor for a VC group, how will a graduate degree be helpful in founding a biotech or nanotech firm? Do you think an undergraduate degree is enough to found say a company like Hewlett-Packard? My opinion is that, with an undergraduate degree, it seems more possible to start a software/internet company than in any other high-tech industyr. Thanks!

Re: Ask HN: Career Advice. Grad School vs. Industry?

#8

Post by QuercusMax » Mon, Mar 23, 2015, 2:34 AM UTC

For undergrads I would highly recommend getting into a combined BS/MS program if you can. Depending on how many credits you have when you start you may be able to do it in 4 years (maybe plus a summer).

It was a great experience for me. I got a publication on my resume, a chance to see what academia is all about, and decided it wasn't for me - then I graduated with a Master's and went to work in industry.

Re: Ask HN: Career Advice. Grad School vs. Industry?

#9

Post by go1979 » Mon, Mar 23, 2015, 4:57 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #5

Blackthorn wrote: post #4

I have a PhD in computer engineering. I regret it. Unless you're really into research on a particularly narrow topic for 3+ years (and not a topic of your choice, one of your advisor's choice), you don't want to do a PhD and should stay away. Take the four extra years of income instead. On a slightly different note, every PhD I know, self included, has a story about how they almost failed out of or otherwise left gra…

> On a slightly different note, every PhD I know, self included, has a story about how they almost failed out of or otherwise left graduate school if not for some serendipitous event. I have yet to meet someone who doesn't have such a story. Ya, neither have I. The PhD for me was a personal journey that I'm better off personally for taking. It hasn't made me much richer, however (no one should go to grad school for t…

I regret the PhD. To be precise, grad school won't just not make you richer, it will make you poorer.

Forgetting about the money bit (ha!), lets talk pure knowledge. I learned a lot more on the job than I did in school. In my specific case, I wouldn't have gotten those jobs without the PhD. However, I firmly believe there are high learning jobs that can be had without a PhD.

In CS, a PhD gets paid mid 6 figures. That is also what the average mid career developer gets paid. Go figure.

Re: Ask HN: Career Advice. Grad School vs. Industry?

#10

Post by dekhn » Tue, Mar 24, 2015, 1:38 AM UTC

slopnv wrote: post #7

dekhn wrote: post #2

I went straight to grad school (biophysics, top 10 program) after undergrad. Although it meant 7 years of being poorly paid, and giving up on many great opportunities (like working for Yahoo pre-IPO) I think it really did pay off in the long term. Although I'm a software engineer, my research background has opened up a ton of extra opportunities (like being an advisor for a Venture Capital group, carrying out indepen…

Based from your experience as an advisor for a VC group, how will a graduate degree be helpful in founding a biotech or nanotech firm? Do you think an undergraduate degree is enough to found say a company like Hewlett-Packard? My opinion is that, with an undergraduate degree, it seems more possible to start a software/internet company than in any other high-tech industyr. Thanks!

I think the graduate degree helps because it contains many signals, such as 5-7 years of work on a project, an advisor, and papers. That said I'm more than happy to fund smart undergraduates, but it's really hard to see signals that make any one undergraduate stick out from the crowd (doing graduate-level research and publishing papers as an undergraduate is a good signal).