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The Terrible Technical Interview

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191–200 of 236 posts

Re: The Terrible Technical Interview

#191
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I believe everything you say, I'd like to provide a counterpoint. I think I'm a pretty good programmer and I've got a reasonable body of work on GitHub to back it up, but I've often failed technical interviews because I go to pieces under the pressure and my brain just stops working. I've been a dev for > 15 years but if anything I've got worse at interviewing over time. I only apply for positions that I gen…

Personally, I think (or at least hope!) that I'm pretty good at differentiating between nervousness vs. simply not having an answer. With the MVC example that I gave earlier, sometimes people fumble along and provide a lot of information even though they can't pull it together in any coherent way. Other times, they flat-out shrug and tell me that they don't know. Protip: I recommend saying something and at least maki…

Thank you. There should more interviewers like you and i hope to be facing someone alike the next time i am on the applying side of the table.

Re: The Terrible Technical Interview

#192
I have found the most reliable measure for a candidate is looking at their public interactions/contributions. Seeing what projects they choose to work on in their spare time, how they speak at user groups, how they interact on an "issue" online. Blog posts are also great. For me, ability to communicate is such a huge part of being a successful developer, that being able to see how they communicate is always a very strong signal of intelligence, mastery, and interpersonal style.

So this works great for people that partake in such things, but there are clear still many great developers (perhaps the vast majority) that don't have this type of extensive public profile. These are the applicants that I fear false-negatives for the most, and the candidates for which I am not confident of my interview techniques.

Could it be that the proper way to technically interview such a candidate is to offer them a "fellowship" to work on an open-source project? Point them at any project (used by the company or a favorite project of their own) that they'd like to contribute to, and offer them a small stipend and enough time to make a legitimate contribution to open source? And use that as the technical portion of the interview?

Re: The Terrible Technical Interview

#193
I have found the most reliable measure for a candidate is looking at their public interactions/contributions. Seeing what projects they choose to work on in their spare time, how they speak at user groups, how they interact on an "issue" online. Blog posts are also great. For me, ability to communicate is such a huge part of being a successful developer, that being able to see how they communicate is always a very strong signal of intelligence, mastery, and interpersonal style.

So this works great for people that partake in such things, but there are clear still many great developers (perhaps the vast majority) that don't have this type of extensive public profile. These are the applicants that I fear false-negatives for the most, and the candidates for which I am not confident of my interview techniques.

Could it be that the proper way to technically interview such a candidate is to offer them a "fellowship" to work on an open-source project? Point them at any project (used by the company or a favorite project of their own) that they'd like to contribute to, and offer them a small stipend and enough time to make a legitimate contribution to open source? And use that as the technical portion of the interview?

Re: The Terrible Technical Interview

#194

I have found the most reliable measure for a candidate is looking at their public interactions/contributions. Seeing what projects they choose to work on in their spare time, how they speak at user groups, how they interact on an "issue" online. Blog posts are also great. For me, ability to communicate is such a huge part of being a successful developer, that being able to see how they communicate is always a very st…

I think the challenge here will be in the overhead of finding and evaluating suitable projects, given that you can use each one only once.

Re: The Terrible Technical Interview

#195

I've been on both sides of the process and in both cases I prefer the whiteboard. As an interviewer, I simply don't have an hour or two to evaluate someone's project. I want to see a strong resume and ask a few questions to understand whether the resume is real or not. A simple whiteboard question or two is great for that. You can always see whether the person is capable of writing code and it always brings up questi…

"As an interviewer, I simply don't have an hour or two to evaluate someone's project."

These are people with whom you'll be working together with for years. If you can't spare a few hours to make sure you are finding the right person, what does that say to a candidate?

Re: The Terrible Technical Interview

#196

I do almost all of the technical phone screens for my company. The process starts with a "where-do-you-see-yourself-in-5-years" personality screen, with an H.R. drone or outside recruiter. It moves on me, and then on to a brief "homework" coding exercise that we ask people to write and submit. If we like their code sample, then they come in for the panel of "whiteboard-exercise" people who conduct the face to face ro…

What this process seems to be tuned for excluding potential candidates. And if the end result of many many interviews is the idea that the talent pool outside silicon valley is poor, perhaps that reflects the focus of the approach.

I suspect that it is very likely that this process ends up excluding very high-level producers.

Re: The Terrible Technical Interview

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is Atlanta not attractive to tech workers? Georgia Tech has a phenomenal CS program, and we've got a pretty large and diverse startup population. I'm not sure if what you're saying isn't true, or if I'm just biased and not able to see Atlanta from an outsider's perspective.

Heh, I kinda let that dig slide, because the rest of the comment was very well thought out and on-point. However, of course I disagreed. Atlanta is by far the technology hub of the southeastern United States. It has no competition to the west until you reach Houston (and even that is mostly specific to the energy industry). It faces only mild competition from the Research Triangle region of North Carolina, and beyond…

Sorry for not phrasing that better, I definitely would portray the scenario in the same way that you do, but I didn't want to distract from the main point. I probably should have phrased it "not globally attractive" instead of the negatively toned "not super attractive" but even that probably isn't nuanced enough.

Re: The Terrible Technical Interview

#198
I've found this technical interview process to work very well. This is done after the initial phone screen.

1. Show them a problem with your product along with the code. For front end developers it could be how form invalidation errors are being presented to users. 2. Ask them to figure out what why the code is doing this and observe them troubleshoot the code. 3. Tell them to fix the problem in the code and observe them apply a fix, test, and debug it. 4. Ask them to architect a better solution to the problem and to explain what makes it better. What would would be drawbacks to their solution.

The benefits of this approach is that you can evaluate directly how someone solves problems, not how well they communicate, nor how knowledgeable they are. It also helps me judge how fast they are. Sometimes I ask people to estimate how long it would take to solve this and time them. The last step helps establish how they think through their solutions and how well they can communicate their ideas.

Additionally, I get to see how quickly they might get up to speed with our codebase and I can hear other solutions to some of the technical problems we are facing which is incredibly beneficial as a small startup.

Re: The Terrible Technical Interview

#199
post #178
post #139

I've seen two kinds of motivations: that for career climbing, and that of an engineer who enjoys making things. I personally prefer my engineers to have the second. I tried hiring the normal way (CV, white board) and had one candidate worth speaking to in over 200 applicants. We decided to try something else. We stopped reading any cover letter or CV and wrote that in the job ad. We asked candidates to build a simpli…

I would never do a 4 hour project for an interview...

If they're doing that in lieu of normal screening and interview panels this would likely be a time savings for the candidate

Re: The Terrible Technical Interview

#200
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steve works for a relatively unknown company making products for businesses, mostly using Java/C#, whose technical staff seems to be based in Atlanta, which is not a super attractive city for tech workers. Your experience comes from matasano, a company where people get paid to be hack, a dream job for many techies, with offices in New York, Chicago, and Silicon Valley. Is it surprising that your experience is exactly…

There's another big factor at work. If you read Thomas's recent post on Matasano's hiring process [1], they were looking to funnel people in . Steve's process seems pretty clearly designed to filter people out . Compare the idea of sending would-be candidates books to study and the idea of an interview process that COMPLETELY EXPOSES candidates. One is trying to bring people in, the other is trying to drive them out.…

I remember back when I was a teenager looking at colleges seeing a private tech college with a high acceptance rate and a public state college with a low acceptance rate. The Princeton Review had rated the private tech college as much more selective than the public state college. Teenage me was confused - how was that possible? - the state school had a significantly lower acceptance rate!

The reason is, of course, self-selection bias. On average, the people who applied for the tech college were just stronger students than the people who applied to the state college. This likely is because applicants to the tech college were more likely to be people whose primary goal was to peruse an academic discipline that interested them while the state school had a good number of students applying who wanted to party and attend football games. If you were to look at students who applied to BOTH schools, you would actually see a lower acceptance rate for the tech school than the state school.

I suspect that the same factor is at play here. I suspect that the average quality of a candidate who applies for a software security engineering position is much higher than the average quality of a candidate that applies for a enterprise software development position. The software security engineering position is an esoteric position that is more likely to attract applicants who are enthusiasts or at least very interested in the field. The enterprise software development position is more likely to attract anyone with a tech background looking to phone it in and collect a paycheck.

If this is true, while both Thomas and Steve have a difficult time hiring developers, they have a difficult time for fundamentally different reasons. Thomas is like the tech school - his difficulty is with getting candidates to apply. Steve is like the state school - his problem is with separating qualified candidates from "phone it in and collect a paycheck" candidates.

This is why I am skeptical of Thomas thinking he's got a much better way of hiring figured out. Maybe he does for companies that focus on security - judging by his Linkedin profile, he's only worked for companies focused on security. This is certainly valuable, but he has no idea what it is like for Steve.

By the way, I think many of us have seen this self-selection bias at play even within our own companies. Post a primarily Java job and a primarily Scala job and then try to tell me that the same principles apply for filling both positions.

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