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The decline of Vancouver

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Re: The decline of Vancouver

#71
Vancouver seems to get better (at least from my perspective) in terms of tech-hub and while my opinions seem to pain pretty picture of Vancouver, I think some of the concern are legit when it comes to the inflated real estate price. Anyhow, here we go:

Amazon plans to hire 1000 people for their new office. Despite the claim that they only do interview but not hiring I think that's misinformed. They _are_ hiring people. I know a few people who work there and have a friend who's friend was hired there not too long ago. They have private invite sessions once in a while too.

Microsoft said that they're hiring 400 people for their new Vancouver HQ. They also had a private invite sessions around the end of 2014. The recruiter stated that they're hiring 120 people within a year, and more to come. Sounds like they will do this in phase.

Body shop like Facebook and Twitter pointed out up-front that they only do training and only hire fresh-grad to be shipped to the USA.

Salesforce is ACTIVELY hiring in Vancouver. They poached my co-worker last year. I've been hearing that their offer is in the range of 120-140k for intermediate engineer.

90k is the minimum current rate for intermediate engineer for mid-size to BigCo (Salesforce being the outlier). Small-to-mid offers around 70k to high 80k with laid-back/better work-life balance and frequent to work from home. Source: recruiters, I know some of them and have maintain good relationship.

SauceLabs is recruiting with 4 current "seed" employees for their Vancouver branch.

I know someone tried to recruit a Vancouver-based OpenDNS employee where the requested salary is between $110k-120k. I can only guess OpenDNS paid their employee here probably around 90k or more.

A Thinking Ape (YC backed) is here. Mozilla has a medium-sized presence here. The list goes on. So whether the pay is low, I'd say that's relative. I don't know the compensation for the rest of the USA cities except SF and Seattle.

Seattle is nice but damn... the food, the outdoor, the culture, the diversity are below Vancouver (I spent a short stint in MS). The commute is also bad.

Also don't forget we have basic health insurance and probably "saner" government.

Let's go over the real-estate a little bit:

I've been scouting and am invited to a few "VIP sessions" for apartments and townhouses (the kind of estate that none of these rich Chinese would probably buy since it's below their range; they only buy fancy houses no?) hold by the developers. Most of the sessions I went to usually managed to sell 100% of their "phase one" development and 70% of their "phase two" development. Somehow there seems to be an influx of buyers and NO, they're not dominated by mainland Chinese people.

A friend of mine recently purchased a townhouse (3 floors, 3br, 2.5 bath, super small backyard, 1400sq ft finished, brand-new, new appliances, etc) for $599k in the suburb, very close to the train station (10 mins walk), 20 minutes via train to Downtown core. This location is quite ideal too: near the biggest mall in Vancouver, relatively good suburban area, close to food and entertainments.

My manager came from Down Under (Oz) and said that at least he can afford an apartment in the downtown area that does not blow a huge hole on his wallet compare to Sydney (NSW).

Rent is definitely cheaper compare to the big cities (Sydney, NYC, SF, LA): 1400-1500 1br in downtown area, a wee bit more expensive in the posh-downtown area or near the Coal Harbour. 1200 for decent size 1-br apartment near the biggest Mall in GVRD (Greater Vancouver District).

Do keep in mind that the public transportation is pretty good compare to most cities I've ever been to (except Singapore, HK, NYC, or London). The buses and trains are well maintained despite a few occasional service hiccups. I've taken BART in SF before, smelly, dingy, weird people, and slightly more complex fare calculation. I've taken Sydney (NSW) train before, still manual (operated by human), not frequent, more expensive.

Vancouver also has an "express" train (different path/route than the main stream) that connects the downtown core and some of the further suburbs. The city keeps improving and expanding the train services further east to cover more area. A few years ago the city just wraps up the line that connects the airport to the end of the Downtown core where the Cruise sails, where the startup/hip/US-branch companies have offices. The path takes about 30 minutes trip.

And whenever someone said "40 minutes driving" from downtown core, that's 40 minutes via REGULAR street/road not Highway like in the USA. In the States, the default is almost always "Highway" if you're coming from the 'burbs. In Vancouver, it's just a normal street which means distance wise is not that far.

Crime rate is very low around here.

Re: The decline of Vancouver

#72

I live in Vancouver, and have for many years.. as such, I hope I can try and help inform an otherwise misinformed set of posts. I suspect they're off-base largely because a lot has changed since some of the authors of other posts have lived here. First, there are many technology companies in Vancouver. Hootsuite, Bench, A Thinking Ape, Clio, Slack, Amazon.. these are just the ones that came to mind. I know authoritat…

Hear hear!

Here's my comment to back up dennispi post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9245915

As per my post (the TL;DR summary here...): Intermediate Engineer 90k or more, Senior 110k or more. Better health insurance/coverage. For example: child-birth cost almost nothing (VIP room costs $100 ish for 2-3 days after corp. insurance cover the rest, regular room is covered by basic health insurance I think).

>Finally, commutes range from 5-30 minutes (and that's going to cover people who walk, bike and take transit).

I'd like put that in bold (as stated in my comment as well). This is different compare to the States where Highway is the One True Way :). (I used to live in LA before settling down in Vancouver).

Re: The decline of Vancouver

#73
post #9

According to Wikipedia, Vancouver only has 600k people. Shouldn't people expect the city to grow to a few million people over the next 100 years? More people are moving to cities, after all. I'd think that with proper urban planning, there's enough space to grow. Urban planning means more mass transit, of course. That's not something that we do very well in the western hemisphere. Even NYC could be a lot better. Peop…

Vancouver is already extremely dense and its geography prevents much more expansion. Try to find a good quality topo map of the Greater Vancouver area and you'll understand why your comment doesn't ring as being true.

Re: The decline of Vancouver

#74

I live in Vancouver, and have for many years.. as such, I hope I can try and help inform an otherwise misinformed set of posts. I suspect they're off-base largely because a lot has changed since some of the authors of other posts have lived here. First, there are many technology companies in Vancouver. Hootsuite, Bench, A Thinking Ape, Clio, Slack, Amazon.. these are just the ones that came to mind. I know authoritat…

Hear hear! Here's my comment to back up dennispi post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9245915 As per my post (the TL;DR summary here...): Intermediate Engineer 90k or more, Senior 110k or more. Better health insurance/coverage. For example: child-birth cost almost nothing (VIP room costs $100 ish for 2-3 days after corp. insurance cover the rest, regular room is covered by basic health insurance I think). >Fina…

So, the salary is still half SF, and 2 hrs away w/ TN Seattle pays %90 SF. And cheaper housing.

LA is highway culture, SF the city is transit culture.

Re: The decline of Vancouver

#75
post #63

Surprised there was no mention of Hong Kong as Vancouver is often dubbed Hongcouver and Hong Kong has to deal with the same kind of problems right now (that is, the younger generation can't afford to live there).

> the younger generation can't afford to live there So live somewhere else. I don't really get the problem, seems like normal market forces to me. Canada is a huge country.

If only humans were robots without emotional attachments, family or a desire for happiness, applying market solutions to problems would be so easy! Being priced out of the city you grew up in because foreign investors are looking for a place to hide money safely is not good for a city in the long run, or its inhabitants. Perhaps more stringent foreign ownership rules could be applied and produces an effect that didn't require the next generation to pack up and leave for greener pastures.

Re: The decline of Vancouver

#76

As a student in Vancouver this worries me. It think it's about time either the city or metro Vancouver started putting forward some absentee homeowner legislation. We have a lot of talented young people that are leaving to places like Calgary and Seattle because the Vancouver doesn't have the opportunities to support them.

That time was 10 years ago. The government has no reason to put such legislation in place, because it lives off taxes on empty buildings and because it would crash the f#ck out of RE market if they turn their back on Chinese money and it starts flowing out.

Re: The decline of Vancouver

#77
post #63

Surprised there was no mention of Hong Kong as Vancouver is often dubbed Hongcouver and Hong Kong has to deal with the same kind of problems right now (that is, the younger generation can't afford to live there).

> the younger generation can't afford to live there So live somewhere else. I don't really get the problem, seems like normal market forces to me. Canada is a huge country.

Canada is huge but the nice livable places are few and far between.

Re: The decline of Vancouver

#78
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of the owners move their families over. But they often own more than one property, so the unused ones are completely vacant.

I still don't understand why they don't want the rent money on those properties.

Because they also flip these properties on regular basis (anywhere from 3 to 24 months) and it's significantly harder to do that with people living in.

Re: The decline of Vancouver

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the early/mid 2000's Vancouver had a healthy games industry. Not sure about now. But your point is valid. Vancouver doesn't really have any technology industry that's in a virtuous cycle yet.

Quebec province was heavily subsidising the video game industry back then (and I believe still is though to a lesser degree) which might have not played in Vancouver's favour.

Quebec and other provincial subsidies played a role, but in general the AAA console game business model that fuelled the Vancouver games industry in the early 2000s has been weakened severely. The middle of the market is gone leaving only a tiny handful of ultra high budget games, and a low end of indies in the PC space.

There are a lot of talented games or ex-games people in Vancouver, a lot of them interested in indie games, but because games is not a repeatable business model and it is incredibly hard to predict what will be successful, there's no real VC environment and it's hard to find the cash to start up a studio. The age of big publishers like Sony and Microsoft dumping cash on people for exclusives seems over.

I know a few games guys that have gotten out altogether and gone to work at non-games companies, but in general I'm not sure if there's a great deal of interest from non-game companies in hiring ex-games people. Unfortunately games is weird highly specialized skill set.

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