Sabbath mode • Hacker News Board

Re: Sabbath mode

#21

Post by kazinator » Sat, Mar 21, 2015, 5:32 PM UTC

judah wrote: post #8

brianwawok wrote: post #2

It is interesting. I think elevators in some building will run, but with the buttons disabled. So its like Go to floor 1 Open doors Wait 30 seconds Close doors Go to floor 2

Yeah, there are some elevators in Israel that do this on shabbat.

What if you push the button really slowly, so that it's a thermodynamically an adiabatic process? As you release the button equally slowly, it does an equal amount of work on you. The process has been thermodynamically reversed, so all is cool! (The irreversible state change in the button-driven machine, arguably, increased entropy, though, ouch. Maybe not!)

Re: Sabbath mode

#22

Post by golergka » Sat, Mar 21, 2015, 5:33 PM UTC

IvyMike wrote: post #6

Possibly related: http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/21/us/brooklyn-fire-children-kill... TL;DR: Tragic fire caused by a hot plate left on overnight so that it could be used to warm food on the Sabbath.

In Israel they are advertised specifically for that purpose. I'm not religious, but I suspect that this is exactly the case. However, since this user case is non-orthodox for heating surfaces, I think that they need special testing and quality control for hot plates sold for this.

Re: Sabbath mode

#23

Post by mikeash » Sat, Mar 21, 2015, 5:36 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #3

Clever hack, but if you're coming up with ways to circumvent your religion's practices, are you really still practicing your religion?

The Jewish response to this that I've seen is pretty sensible: if God didn't want there to be loopholes then there wouldn't be any.

Re: Sabbath mode

#24

Post by rhizome » Sat, Mar 21, 2015, 5:39 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #3

Clever hack, but if you're coming up with ways to circumvent your religion's practices, are you really still practicing your religion?

Sometimes the hack is even built-in to the religion:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=334624

Re: Sabbath mode

#25

Post by k__ » Sat, Mar 21, 2015, 5:40 PM UTC

kazinator wrote: post #21

judah wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, there are some elevators in Israel that do this on shabbat.

What if you push the button really slowly, so that it's a thermodynamically an adiabatic process? As you release the button equally slowly, it does an equal amount of work on you. The process has been thermodynamically reversed, so all is cool! (The irreversible state change in the button-driven machine, arguably, increased entropy, though, ouch. Maybe not!)

You have to slip and fall on the button.

Re: Sabbath mode

#26

Post by cssmoo » Sat, Mar 21, 2015, 5:40 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #23

freehunter wrote: post #3

Clever hack, but if you're coming up with ways to circumvent your religion's practices, are you really still practicing your religion?

The Jewish response to this that I've seen is pretty sensible: if God didn't want there to be loopholes then there wouldn't be any.

If there was a god he'd probably be facepalming.

Re: Sabbath mode

#27

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Mar 21, 2015, 5:42 PM UTC

IvyMike wrote: post #6

Possibly related: http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/21/us/brooklyn-fire-children-kill... TL;DR: Tragic fire caused by a hot plate left on overnight so that it could be used to warm food on the Sabbath.

[deleted]

Re: Sabbath mode

#28

Post by mjs » Sat, Mar 21, 2015, 5:44 PM UTC

chimeracoder wrote: post #5

Somewhat related: B&H, an electronics store in New York owned by Hasidic Jews not only closes its brick & mortar store on Saturdays, but its website as well: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/ Screenshot for anyone looking at this after 8:30 EDT today: https://i.imgur.com/XvZHDXA.png

Do they actually explain on their website why they do this? I've spent some time in the past looking without success.

Re: Sabbath mode

#29

Post by cssmoo » Sat, Mar 21, 2015, 5:44 PM UTC

brianwawok wrote: post #2

It is interesting. I think elevators in some building will run, but with the buttons disabled. So its like Go to floor 1 Open doors Wait 30 seconds Close doors Go to floor 2

I have never observed correlation between the intended floor and the actual lift travel and floor you end up on so I'd suggest that all lifts probably operate in a similar manor. Either that or its just malicious embedded systems engineers :)

Re: Sabbath mode

#30

Post by ZanyProgrammer » Sat, Mar 21, 2015, 5:45 PM UTC

Shalomm wrote: post #16

judah wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: I'm Jewish and religious, but not Orthodox; I don't worry about sabbath mode as I have no problem turning on an oven during shabbat; it's not work. That said, if you ask Orthodox Jews, they will say it's not circumventing the laws about shabbat. Rather, it's keeping the laws of shabbat -- avoiding all forms of work -- while still living in the modern world. To circumvent the law would be to find a way tha…

To extend on parent comment: What you call "circumvent your religion's practices", ie building complicated logical arguments or creating new categories and distinctions to re-interpret existing law is considered as a significant part of Jewish religion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talmud#Pilpul In that aspect, Judaism is very different from, say, Christianity.

Except for Karaites who don't believe in the Talmud or Oral Torah.