Make Money Online: Documenting 10 Years of Failure • Hacker News Board

Re: Make Money Online: Documenting 10 Years of Failure

#111

Post by function_seven » Fri, Mar 20, 2015, 9:03 PM UTC

kposehn wrote: post #92

codingdave wrote: post #2

The general online audience has matured over the past 10 years, and most people have an excellent filter to avoid clicking ads, which includes affiliate links. You can still monetize a site these days, and make some money while not being sketchy, but it requires approaching it as a service to your users, not as an exploit of your users. What I mean by this is that whatever your site is, if your audience has a legit i…

> The general online audience has matured over the past 10 years, and most people have an excellent filter to avoid clicking ads, which includes affiliate links. I would disagree. I've found a lot of people - especially in tech - have this mindset. The opposite is true, most notably due to the success of giants like Facebook (for people clicking on ads) and huge affiliates like RetailMeNot (a public company). The dif…

> Why does wanting the commission also entail not helping your audience? You're making a conclusion that isn't valid here because you assume that 100% of affiliate links (because they are placed to earn money) add no value for the visitor. Smart affiliates know that if you want the commission, you have to make it valuable.

I think you may have accidentally skipped this part from codingdave's comment:

>>> What I mean by this is that whatever your site is, if your audience has a legit interest in specific products, and the next logical step in their personal workflow would be to buy something, go ahead and put in some affiliate links. It makes sense, and everyone gets what they need/desire.

Re: Make Money Online: Documenting 10 Years of Failure

#112

Post by johnward » Fri, Mar 20, 2015, 9:06 PM UTC

x0x0 wrote: post #106

johnward wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you're right. I really don't think I have the skills pull off something like that.

Walling's book start small, stay small may help you get started. Amy Hoy talks about this a bunch; she runs a paid course but also has a ton of free content. You should check them out. I've also read about people making serious money from advertising; it seems like the time investment to understand all that stuff is big enough that it could help you understand a small business instead.

I've gone through 30x500 which is kind of what shifted my focus to products. I haven't really taken any action with that yet though but it seems to work for some others.

Re: Make Money Online: Documenting 10 Years of Failure

#113

Post by kposehn » Fri, Mar 20, 2015, 9:07 PM UTC

function_seven wrote: post #111

kposehn wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The general online audience has matured over the past 10 years, and most people have an excellent filter to avoid clicking ads, which includes affiliate links. I would disagree. I've found a lot of people - especially in tech - have this mindset. The opposite is true, most notably due to the success of giants like Facebook (for people clicking on ads) and huge affiliates like RetailMeNot (a public company). The dif…

> Why does wanting the commission also entail not helping your audience? You're making a conclusion that isn't valid here because you assume that 100% of affiliate links (because they are placed to earn money) add no value for the visitor. Smart affiliates know that if you want the commission, you have to make it valuable. I think you may have accidentally skipped this part from codingdave's comment: >>> What I mean…

Good point. I didn't read that right. Thanks!

Re: Make Money Online: Documenting 10 Years of Failure

#114

Post by paulhauggis » Fri, Mar 20, 2015, 9:18 PM UTC

JoshTriplett wrote: post #20

paulhauggis wrote: post #17

I visit forums like Wickedfire from time-to-time. Most of the people there want short-term riches with little to no effort. In fact, the business I started 4 years ago, which is still profitable today, came from an idea I saw in Wickedfire. Only, all of the people in the forum that tried it got banned because they wanted to do it the scammy way..and I built it like a real business and gave people real value (and stil…

> In fact, the business I started 4 years ago, which is still profitable today, came from an idea I saw in Wickedfire. Only, all of the people in the forum that tried it got banned because they wanted to do it the scammy way..and I built it like a real business and gave people real value (and still do). What was that original idea?

haha

Re: Make Money Online: Documenting 10 Years of Failure

#115

Post by equalarrow » Fri, Mar 20, 2015, 9:20 PM UTC

Quote: "For the record email marketing is still the method that drive the most engagement."

Hands down that ^^^^ is correct.

I've spent the last year doing a lot of what the OP has done, sans the link spamming. I've built sites, did white/gray/black hat link building, promoted cpa offers with media and traffic buys, and even offers via kindle books.

What might not be clear to everyone here is that this is still going on and there is still a huge market for this thing and thusly, quite a few people making a lot of money.

I have spent a long time building software. All kinds of it - client, server, web, mobile, now watch. I'm good at this and it's second nature. I've also made a lot more money doing this vs. any type of IM or AM.

However, after getting into IM last year, part of me felt like I missed a whole part of the web 'growing up' because I was focused on spending huge amounts of time building building the tools & platforms vs. using them. Part of this was my disdain for advertising and marketing in general. However, in the last year I have developed a new found respect for those aspects of business - they are required nowadays and you can't avoid them. The few get lucky sites or app builders are just that - lucky. For the rest of us, it's marketing hard work.

I actually didn't do that bad during my foray into this last year. I probably made back 75% of my spend, which was 'only' about $5k. The easiest was bing ads -> clickbank offers. I'm still amazed that tinnitus or diabetes are still big sellers...

I feel like we programmers tend to look down on this or feel it's beneath us. I used to but I don't anymore. I posted before on HN how I thought Pat Flynn was doing a great job and got comments that what I was talking about was spam, not sustainable, etc. But Path's now up to about $1m/yr by becoming his own brand. He engages with his audience and has figured out how to bring a lot of these different types of marketing and educational aspects together.

Another great one is Brian Dean - his posts on driving traffic and capturing audience are amazing. He's definitely a hacker seo guy and I like that.

So, to each his own, but this was a great read.

Re: Make Money Online: Documenting 10 Years of Failure

#116

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Mar 20, 2015, 9:29 PM UTC

spiritplumber wrote: post #8

Heya, I have the opposite problem - I keep inventing physical products, and the people who buy them are happy with their quality, but I'm too shy to market them properly. Want to talk?

[deleted]

Re: Make Money Online: Documenting 10 Years of Failure

#117

Post by logn » Fri, Mar 20, 2015, 9:31 PM UTC

Retra wrote: post #98

logn wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The credit limit was about fronting money to grow the business. Overall I think HN is being too harsh. This is a person taking a rather honest look at himself and giving us a glimpse into his life that also happens to capture an interesting history of the Internet.

My only concern here is that anyone would be surprised that a thought process of "I want to make money -> Let's do whatever is popular" doesn't result in success or production of lasting value. (A) Everybody and their mothers will think the same thing and (B) that equation doesn't have any value production in it, and (C) what happens when the fad dies? It is a wholly selfish act, and I think it's worth the harshness.…

It's not coming across as a sob story to me, just more of a reflection and insight on experiences.

> very old and common mistakes

That's human nature and storytelling.

Re: Make Money Online: Documenting 10 Years of Failure

#118

Post by imjk » Fri, Mar 20, 2015, 9:34 PM UTC

pmcgrathm wrote: post #66

We have a great deal in common. I followed a similar path to yours, and somewhere along the way moved into the Advertiser side of the equation, where the potential upside is much higher. Being a solo affiliate these days has been usurped by large companies posing as 'ad networks,' reselling traffic on the open exchange. With your background, you could make a lot more (in the form of salary and bonus) by marketing at…

Can you give me an example of a company and position that pays $500K for this type of work?

Re: Make Money Online: Documenting 10 Years of Failure

#119

Post by imjk » Fri, Mar 20, 2015, 9:36 PM UTC

spiritplumber wrote: post #8

Heya, I have the opposite problem - I keep inventing physical products, and the people who buy them are happy with their quality, but I'm too shy to market them properly. Want to talk?

What type of products do you create?

Re: Make Money Online: Documenting 10 Years of Failure

#120

Post by droopyEyelids » Fri, Mar 20, 2015, 9:38 PM UTC

Thanks for the awesome view into your private world of trying to make it on your own. As a wage slave, this is the most interesting thing to read about!