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HTML6 proposal for single-page apps without JavaScript

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Re: HTML6 proposal for single-page apps without JavaScript

#111

Post by mattnewton »

outsidetheparty wrote: post #18

Lots and lots of very bad ideas here -- backwards-incompatibility with previous versions of HTML is always a good litmus test that a proposal hasn't been thought through, as is "hey let's restructure everything around this one currently-fashionable design pattern". (I kind of love how he just casually embeds a SQL interpreter in the browser, too, that's a nice finishing touch.) But the main thing is that this doesn't…

I agree, I think there are real problems in modern web development, but they aren't in replacing javascript; they should be focusing on ideas like the shadow Dom that make things that weren't possible possible iMO, and leave these kinds of improvements to userspace frameworks built on their new features.

Re: HTML6 proposal for single-page apps without JavaScript

#112

Post by frik »

AngryAntlion wrote: post #96

Has anyone looked at the source of his site? www.futureclaw.com

The worst site I saw in 2015, it's broken in IE11 and Firefox.

Or are all the double and triple scrollbars intentional? And the code, the "Editor-In-Chief" seem to be stuck the 1990s, with all CAPS HTML tags and HTML 2 style code.

Re: HTML6 proposal for single-page apps without JavaScript

#113

Post by virmundi »

thomasahle wrote: post #79
jkoudys wrote: post #53

This proposal is trying to take a common web design pattern, MVC, and make it part of the official spec. HTML is a _markup language_, it's ridiculous to use it as anything but a semantic language. Here's my HTML6 proposal: There’s a standard design pattern emerging via cascading style sheets, where content is styled directly via CSS. Everyone’s into it because the layout looks so much nicer. Since this is so common n…

> HTML is a _markup language_, it's ridiculous to use it as anything but a semantic language. So which is it? A semantic language or a markup (syntax) language? Why does it have to stay that way? (Even if the proposal is a bad one.)

It should stay close to what it is because it's fairly good at its job. To make it more than that would be to generalize it away from its job into some new job. This violates single responsibility. We've already learned our lesson with that and HTML; thus was born CSS.

Making a web standard for single page apps doesn't really seem necessary. Applications are by their nature different than web sites. A web site is a collection of content displayed largely as pages that are designated by a URI. An application is an abstraction over the page model that minimizes the transparent page/resource model with an opaque process flow model. HTML, as it stands, can be the V in MVC in either. Making it take on the M or C gains us little and stands to lose us much.

Re: HTML6 proposal for single-page apps without JavaScript

#114

Post by angersock »

thomasahle wrote: post #83
ryannevius wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an "upvote" button, just to the left of the comment above.

You shouldn't use the upvote button for agreement. On the other hand "+1" and "I agree" and "Well said!" clutter the forum. How do we solve this?

pg himself has (unfortunately) stated that the downvote button is usable to signal disagreement.

It makes sense, then, that the upvote button be used for agreement.

Re: HTML6 proposal for single-page apps without JavaScript

#115

Post by angersock »

Drakim wrote: post #93
officialjunk wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what's wrong with upvoting with agreement?

Upvoting based on "this comment brings up good points and arguments" rather than "this comment says things that I think are true" helps fight against the community becoming an echo chamber.

We downvote despite "good points and arguments".

The community is in many ways already an echo-chamber; that battle was lost a few years ago. Don't let it bug you.

Re: HTML6 proposal for single-page apps without JavaScript

#117

Post by askmike »

jkoudys wrote: post #53

This proposal is trying to take a common web design pattern, MVC, and make it part of the official spec. HTML is a _markup language_, it's ridiculous to use it as anything but a semantic language. Here's my HTML6 proposal: There’s a standard design pattern emerging via cascading style sheets, where content is styled directly via CSS. Everyone’s into it because the layout looks so much nicer. Since this is so common n…

> HTML is a _markup language_

It might have been designed as a language for web based documents. Though this is not what the web is used for today, consumers want applications not documents. And we are already hacking away on top of those documents to give them that (despite the web not being intended as such).

Re: HTML6 proposal for single-page apps without JavaScript

#118

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

Igglyboo wrote: post #107
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, the original purpose of XMLHttpRequest was to fetch XML , as its name implies. AJAX stands for Asynchronous JavaScript And XML

XHTML is XML

Theoretically, yes! In practice it isn't, because people are sloppy.

Re: HTML6 proposal for single-page apps without JavaScript

#119

Post by toxican »

e12e wrote: post #63
madoublet wrote: post #23

Single page apps seem like a hack to make browser apps feel like they are closer to native apps. Because most SPAs have a set flow, it seems like we should be able to use prefetching to tell the browser what is most likely to happen next. For example, if you are on a list, then you can tell the browser to prefetch the details. What I feel like is missing from this equation is a nice transition between pages. How nice…

And today you can use that markup and shim the transition you want with js - and still gracefully downgrade.

But wouldn't having it in the HTML mean you don't need the js? And then it wouldn't need to downgrade in modern browsers at all.

Re: HTML6 proposal for single-page apps without JavaScript

#120

Post by dghf »

askmike wrote: post #117
jkoudys wrote: post #53

This proposal is trying to take a common web design pattern, MVC, and make it part of the official spec. HTML is a _markup language_, it's ridiculous to use it as anything but a semantic language. Here's my HTML6 proposal: There’s a standard design pattern emerging via cascading style sheets, where content is styled directly via CSS. Everyone’s into it because the layout looks so much nicer. Since this is so common n…

> HTML is a _markup language_ It might have been designed as a language for web based documents. Though this is not what the web is used for today, consumers want applications not documents. And we are already hacking away on top of those documents to give them that (despite the web not being intended as such).

> It might have been designed as a language for web based documents. Though this is not what the web is used for today, consumers want applications not documents.

They want applications and documents, or I do anyway. I spend more of my time online reading stuff than using GMail or whatever.

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