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Why Spotify Pays So Little

lit.vulf.de

291–300 of 305 posts

Re: Why Spotify Pays So Little

#291
post #48

Like others in this thread, I naively assumed this was how Spotify already worked, and wondered why the payouts tended to be so low. Now it makes sense, and puts the numbers here ( http://www.spotifyartists.com/spotify-explained/ ) in context. Realistically, it would be both hard to change structurally and a hard sell for major labels to give up what is effectively a subsidy of popular music by indie fans. Let’s take…

But there's an impedance mismatch here. The copyright holders are being paid per-play but the users are paying all-you-can-eat. That's always going to be an imbalance. The only way to "fix" that would be to charge "Terry" a cent per listen like a jukebox. This is a bit like being a vegetarian at a buffet and complaining about your admission fee paying for steak which all those other people are eating. It's true, but…

There's another option, which is to calculate the "per play" rate differently for each listener. If one user plays 300 tracks per month (one 10-track album per day), and another user plays music 24/7 (the gyms that have been mentioned before), why should the per-play fee be the same in both cases? If this was a pay-per-play model that would be fine, but this is all-you-can-eat streaming. Users that listen to a disproportionately high number of songs should not dictate which artists get money. That awards those users far more than their normal $10/mo purchasing power.

This scheme is similar to the proposal to calculate artist pay independently for each user, but I think it's a little simpler, since you still only calculate the artist pay out of the global pot, you're just weighing each play by the user's total monthly plays. And you can put a minimum on it too, so the per-play weighting doesn't take effect until the user listens to more than a given number of tracks per month (this way the user who has a subscription but just occasionally listens to a song here and there isn't paying the artist $1 per play, which is to say, until you reach a certain point, listening to other songs won't "devalue" your previous tracks).

Re: Why Spotify Pays So Little

#292
> Normal listeners are subsidizing yoga studios that play Spotify all day.

I didn't go thorugh Spotify's TOS, but is it allowed for commercial settings such as stores, studios, etc? I'd think the price would be for personal use only.

Re: Why Spotify Pays So Little

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Implementation is one paragraph of SQL or statistical code, given access to the data set and a few minutes to execute. This change in how revenue per song is calculated is truly simple. The only hard part is convincing people it's better. Adoption has nothing at all to do with complexity. Be careful you're not moving the goalposts. Bill gates giving me a billion dollars to screw around with is extremely simple, and a…

Adoption is directly effected by the implementation and design you choose. If your app is nothing more than a table and some aggregate statistics, because you just made the simple implementation with absolutely no design, then good luck getting musicians especially older ones who probably still rely on paper copies of their monthly records being gasp mailed to them to adopt the app. It is not moving goal posts its co…

The old method mailed them revenue taken in per song. The new method will do the same. You mail them the same sheet as before, but it's probably more fair.

Re: Why Spotify Pays So Little

#294
post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Even if 100% of commercial properties that play music was using Spotify behind the scenes 24/7 that's still got to be only a small percentage of total Spotify plays.

Don't businesses also pay a lot more than individuals. I know here in Sweden playing music as part of your business is licensed differently than playing music in your living room. Commercial properties pay about 10 times as much pr. month for Spotify to cover commercial licensing of the music.

That was a really good question so I looked it up. Apparently commercial use of Spotify is against their TOS. So while some businesses certainly do use Spotify illegally, it's not a piece of business they are trying to get. https://support.spotify.com/us/learn-more/faq/#!/article/pub...

Re: Why Spotify Pays So Little

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Agreed, I finally admitted last year that I was tired of maintaining my own MP3 library. If a subscription service could get me out of that chore, I'd do it in a heartbeat. But the music I listen to is crazy all over the place, and if the service doesn't have even one of the songs I want, then it's worthless. Even if I can upload mp3s, now I'm back to maintaining an mp3 library. If I switch services, I have to eith…

I'm hitting this point right now. After years of maintaining an mp3 collection I jumped ship to Spotify to try it out and loved it. It was great that I no longer had to spend any time to get access to the music I loved. Also community playlists were awesome (Especially the Top X Hit playlists that were updated monthly). Spotify even supported Last.FM, I was in heaven... Until Spotify didn't have that 1 song, or that…

Now I just use Youtube (via Streamus, a Chrome extension that plays from Youtube) and SoundCloud. Not having that 1 song really does ruin Spotify or any similar kind of service for me.

Re: Why Spotify Pays So Little

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So does this mean that an artist makes more money when I /don't/ choose Google Music, because they get paid per advertisement shown when I load their video? ... this makes me sad.

not even close! you'd have to watch the video more than a thousand times, each of those views having a pre-roll video ad before it, and never skipping thru the pre-roll video ad. realistically, this means the artist would have to get more than fifty thousand streams per month to equal just one subscriber.

It won't let me edit, but I realized my comment is not clearly worded. You, as a listener, would have to listen to more than fifty thousand streams in one month to "pay" Google an amount of ad revenue equivalent to the Google Music monthly subscription rate. So unless you listen to more than 1500 YouTube tracks per day, you're better off paying (if your goal is to support the artist).

There's just not enough money in ads. This is why things like Patreon exist.

Re: Why Spotify Pays So Little

#297
post #173
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing to focus on is that the rate per song in the CD era can't fairly be compared to the rate per song today - particularly for popular songs that have a global reach. I would agree that "per play" is only a partial metric, but would caution against trying to compare too much over time.

Then how do we evaluate musicians' claims of not being paid fairly?

at the end of the day, it's art...'fair value' is a very unique construct

the main point I was making was that comparing 20 years ago to today in this case is likely not equivalent (at best I would say it's an incomplete view)

Re: Why Spotify Pays So Little

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but what is the total market size of businesses versus individuals?

I agree. Even if 100% of commercial properties that play music was using Spotify behind the scenes 24/7 that's still got to be only a small percentage of total Spotify plays.

[deleted]

Re: Why Spotify Pays So Little

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adoption is directly effected by the implementation and design you choose. If your app is nothing more than a table and some aggregate statistics, because you just made the simple implementation with absolutely no design, then good luck getting musicians especially older ones who probably still rely on paper copies of their monthly records being gasp mailed to them to adopt the app. It is not moving goal posts its co…

The old method mailed them revenue taken in per song. The new method will do the same. You mail them the same sheet as before, but it's probably more fair.

The old method mailed them how many times a song was played and total revenue for that song. Therefore it was easy to see the rates. With what you are describing they would only see average rate if you mail them the same sheet. It is not the same.

Re: Why Spotify Pays So Little

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm hitting this point right now. After years of maintaining an mp3 collection I jumped ship to Spotify to try it out and loved it. It was great that I no longer had to spend any time to get access to the music I loved. Also community playlists were awesome (Especially the Top X Hit playlists that were updated monthly). Spotify even supported Last.FM, I was in heaven... Until Spotify didn't have that 1 song, or that…

Now I just use Youtube (via Streamus, a Chrome extension that plays from Youtube) and SoundCloud. Not having that 1 song really does ruin Spotify or any similar kind of service for me.

Yeah I used this extention https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/media-keys-by-sway... (Media Keys by Sway) for a while but it plus the SC tab was chewing up memory. Now I'm using Vox (OS X client) that works with SC (and my media keys). I do plan on offlining the SC playlists I like and just playing the files directly eventually.
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