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Turning Japanese: Coping with stasis

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Re: Turning Japanese: Coping with stasis

#31

Post by kazinator »

hkmurakami wrote: post #22
kazinator wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what that means that if some Japanese folk are in a crisis, they (within obvious limitations of individual personalities and capacities) can generally count on each other to "do the Japanese thing". That brings a certain spontaneous efficiency and order into a chaotic situation, compared to having to deal with clashes of different mindsets on top of the crisis.

> do the Japanese thing I think this is important to stress, because "doing the Japanese thing" isn't a natural, subconscious thing. It's a deliberate "playing the part". The uniformity of Japanese society isn't entirely due to the uniformity of its people. It's also strongly driven by people responsibly acting like they are "supposed to" in role play fashion. There are many people who couldn't handle the role play a…

I have been informed by some non-immigrant Japanese people that they find some Japanese immigrants living in, say, Canada or America, to have their own way of thinking (so that, "yappari" (of course, no surprise!), those people prefer being immigrants in another culture).

So sometimes I ask the question, like it's great in Japan, why do you want to be here? The reasons are various, among them things like, "I like just addressing people by their first name", or "there are people from many different countries and cultures in Canada; people are not 'the same'".

Once on the train (in Canada) I overheard some snippet of conversation among some girls about some planned event, "... minna Nihonjin dakara ikitakunai" ("I don't want to go, because everyone there will be Japanese").

Re: Turning Japanese: Coping with stasis

#32

Post by lovemenot »

hkmurakami wrote: post #22
kazinator wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what that means that if some Japanese folk are in a crisis, they (within obvious limitations of individual personalities and capacities) can generally count on each other to "do the Japanese thing". That brings a certain spontaneous efficiency and order into a chaotic situation, compared to having to deal with clashes of different mindsets on top of the crisis.

> do the Japanese thing I think this is important to stress, because "doing the Japanese thing" isn't a natural, subconscious thing. It's a deliberate "playing the part". The uniformity of Japanese society isn't entirely due to the uniformity of its people. It's also strongly driven by people responsibly acting like they are "supposed to" in role play fashion. There are many people who couldn't handle the role play a…

>> "doing the Japanese thing" isn't a natural, subconscious thing. It's a deliberate "playing the part".

Arguably, for anyone, it always is just playing a part. Japanese seem to get this point better than some, so tend to keep in character for longer.

Re: Turning Japanese: Coping with stasis

#33

Post by IndianAstronaut »

lovemenot wrote: post #24

Such cultural aspects of Japan are indeed attractive and I hope they will endure. However, the current economic model is not sustainable for a country of 120M, or even 80 - 90% of that (after shrinkage of human assets). Ironically, from the perspective of the country as a whole, sustainable agriculture / craft industries are very far from being so. I believe, Japan needs to find a way to attract economically stimulat…

They need to bring in immigrants of only a single gender from any given nation. They will assimilate much quicker than those who will have the opposite gender to form relations with and isolated communities with. Early immigrants right after the war in Britain assimilated quite well, even normally conservative ones like Muslim communities when only men were brought over.

Re: Turning Japanese: Coping with stasis

#34

Post by kazinator »

lovemenot wrote: post #32
hkmurakami wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> do the Japanese thing I think this is important to stress, because "doing the Japanese thing" isn't a natural, subconscious thing. It's a deliberate "playing the part". The uniformity of Japanese society isn't entirely due to the uniformity of its people. It's also strongly driven by people responsibly acting like they are "supposed to" in role play fashion. There are many people who couldn't handle the role play a…

>> "doing the Japanese thing" isn't a natural, subconscious thing. It's a deliberate "playing the part". Arguably, for anyone, it always is just playing a part. Japanese seem to get this point better than some, so tend to keep in character for longer.

Basically, you're not going to say and do the right thing, if you're raised by wolves in the woods, no matter what genes you contain. It is learned.

So then whether it's acting its just a question of how deeply is the learning integrated into your personality and how it aligns with your so called temperament.

Re: Turning Japanese: Coping with stasis

#35

Post by hkmurakami »

RachelF wrote: post #25
hkmurakami wrote: post #3

> And then there’s the view. Whether it’s the outskirts of Queens on the way from New York’s JFK airport, or the fringes of the Los Angeles highway off-ramps by LAX, everything seems a bit run down and decrepit. Even on the train from Narita Airport to Tokyo, you'll pass plenty of comparatively run down "commerce areas" adjacent to small train stops. The buildings are old, and made of nondescript concrete that have b…

You see plenty of industrial areas from the limousine busses, and a few homeless people under bridges. However, if Africa is third world and the US first world, then Japan is one better, in most respects, perhaps, zero'th world.

The reason I brought up the areas surrounding train station stops is because those areas are the prime commerce locations where things are supposed to be at their best. Things like homelessness exist everywhere in the shadows of society. To have buildings that contrast sharply with the glittering skyscrapes that symbolize Tokyo exist adjacent to train stations is a signal that not all is well everywhere in the country, even within greater Tokyo.

Re: Turning Japanese: Coping with stasis

#36

Post by hkmurakami »

kazinator wrote: post #31
hkmurakami wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> do the Japanese thing I think this is important to stress, because "doing the Japanese thing" isn't a natural, subconscious thing. It's a deliberate "playing the part". The uniformity of Japanese society isn't entirely due to the uniformity of its people. It's also strongly driven by people responsibly acting like they are "supposed to" in role play fashion. There are many people who couldn't handle the role play a…

I have been informed by some non-immigrant Japanese people that they find some Japanese immigrants living in, say, Canada or America, to have their own way of thinking (so that, "yappari" (of course, no surprise!), those people prefer being immigrants in another culture). So sometimes I ask the question, like it's great in Japan, why do you want to be here? The reasons are various, among them things like, "I like jus…

I know exactly what that girl meant by that phrase and empathize with her. As as outsider of any degree (whether American born like me or simply not having fit in with the "way things are" in a Japanese group setting), it can be stifling.

Re: Turning Japanese: Coping with stasis

#37

Post by kazinator »

jayfuerstenberg wrote: post #11

Herbivore men in Japanese is not "soshoku danshi", it's "soshoku KEI danshi". Just sayin'.

> it's "soshoku KEI danshi". Just sayin'.

You are correct. The calligraphist got the inclusion of the "kei" right, just not the article text. I don't think that "soushoku danshi" is wrong, though. Also, sometimes just "soushoku doubutsu" is used (literally, "herbivore").

Re: Turning Japanese: Coping with stasis

#38

Post by lovemenot »

IndianAstronaut wrote: post #33
lovemenot wrote: post #24

Such cultural aspects of Japan are indeed attractive and I hope they will endure. However, the current economic model is not sustainable for a country of 120M, or even 80 - 90% of that (after shrinkage of human assets). Ironically, from the perspective of the country as a whole, sustainable agriculture / craft industries are very far from being so. I believe, Japan needs to find a way to attract economically stimulat…

They need to bring in immigrants of only a single gender from any given nation. They will assimilate much quicker than those who will have the opposite gender to form relations with and isolated communities with. Early immigrants right after the war in Britain assimilated quite well, even normally conservative ones like Muslim communities when only men were brought over.

I am not sure that I am arguing for large-scale, planned mixing and assimilation.

Rather I am proposing that native Japanese and resident visitors could each benefit from co-habitation of the physical space, despite having very divergent social and economic models.

Re: Turning Japanese: Coping with stasis

#39

Post by LukeHoersten »

'"Do rich societies really need to get richer and richer indefinitely?" he asks.'

They do if they are going to pay off their mega-debt. The real fear is when the GDP drops below the yearly interest payments.

I feel the same when I go to nice European countries. "Wow everything is so nice" and then I remind myself that Germany is paying for it all. It's not sustainable. Look at some of the Scandinavian countries for nice mass public transit in a more sustainable setting.

Re: Turning Japanese: Coping with stasis

#40

Post by jpatokal »

hkmurakami wrote: post #3

> And then there’s the view. Whether it’s the outskirts of Queens on the way from New York’s JFK airport, or the fringes of the Los Angeles highway off-ramps by LAX, everything seems a bit run down and decrepit. Even on the train from Narita Airport to Tokyo, you'll pass plenty of comparatively run down "commerce areas" adjacent to small train stops. The buildings are old, and made of nondescript concrete that have b…

Yeah, that line is ridiculous. Tokyo is the only part of Japan that's still growing in population, and that will stall and reverse by 2020. Even in Tokyo, "new and shiny" is concentrated in a few central spots near major train stations. Population in the rest of the country is shrinking, with many places in outright collapse.

https://spikejapan.wordpress.com/2014/08/16/yubari-withering...

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