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Scientists Are Racing to Build a Better Diet Soda

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Re: Scientists Are Racing to Build a Better Diet Soda

#31

Post by tptacek »

Tomte wrote: post #28
tptacek wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever tried miracle berries? I have, in a demo they did for us at Cantu's restaurant. It's not a sweetener. It alters your sense of taste, for a fairly long period of time; it changes how everything tastes. It's really cool, and you should (if you haven't already) order some and play with them yourself. It's hard to see how they'd displace aspartame, though.

I've always wanted to try those, but at first I couldn't decide to order in some online shop, and next time I looked the shop had closed. I think they wrote something about not being allowed to sell miracle berries in the EU, because it was categorized as some dietary supplement or so, without the necessary certifications.

The best way to think about them is that they "filter out" sourness, which you perceptually register as increased sweetness. It doesn't do much of anything to bitterness. Lemons and fresh tomatoes are two things that taste very different on miracle berries.

Re: Scientists Are Racing to Build a Better Diet Soda

#32

Post by jfroma »

pasbesoin wrote: post #14

TL;DR: You don't have to use it in the manner in which it is packaged. Another trick: Cut your soda with water. I think it's still preferable to avoid soda, but if you like the taste and/or want a bit of a boost, try mixing it 50/50 with water. Or less. I like Coke Classic this way. Or, particularly on a hot day, pour over a glass full of ice. Slowly sip away as the ice continues to melt. I still think this is a slip…

My father told me that my grand parent used to cut Coke with carbonated water when it first appeared in Argentina because of two reasons 1- it was very sweet and the people wasn't used to that. 2- because it was very expensive.

He said that the 750ml bottle was enough for the 4 member family, one glass per person. When the 1L bottle came out, it was a problem they didn't know how to hand out the remaining, so they decide to have another child, my uncle.

Re: Scientists Are Racing to Build a Better Diet Soda

#33

Post by primroot »

iLoch wrote: post #6

This is probably a crazy idea: drink less soda. When it comes to pop, I usually stick to cola - and when it's cola I'll never buy it unless it is made with real cane sugar. Boom, potential side effects of artificial sweeteners are gone, and the drink tastes way better. And just drink more water. Why is this so hard for people?

Easy. Just privatize all drinkable water so that people have to buy it. That way drinking water will provide the same economic benefits of drinking soda.

Re: Scientists Are Racing to Build a Better Diet Soda

#34

Post by _JamesA_ »

iLoch wrote: post #6

This is probably a crazy idea: drink less soda. When it comes to pop, I usually stick to cola - and when it's cola I'll never buy it unless it is made with real cane sugar. Boom, potential side effects of artificial sweeteners are gone, and the drink tastes way better. And just drink more water. Why is this so hard for people?

"When it comes to pop, I usually stick to cola..."

As someone not from the Northeastern USA what does that even mean?

Pop, cola, soda and more regularly "coke" (the word not the brand) are all used to refer to soft drinks in general.

Re: Scientists Are Racing to Build a Better Diet Soda

#35

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

tptacek wrote: post #26
fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #17

Sweetener shenanigans that have gone on at the FDA: The Miracle Berry Conspiracy http://www.huffingtonpost.com/homaro-cantu/the-miracle-berry... http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2011-11-25/news... We might already have a better sweetener if it weren't for stuff like this.

Have you ever tried miracle berries? I have, in a demo they did for us at Cantu's restaurant. It's not a sweetener. It alters your sense of taste, for a fairly long period of time; it changes how everything tastes. It's really cool, and you should (if you haven't already) order some and play with them yourself. It's hard to see how they'd displace aspartame, though.

Yes! I'm going to try to grow some this spring. I've just sent off for the seeds.

I read somewhere an idea that people might formulate their food for a flavor that was complimentary to the effect of the miracle berry (Synsepalum dulcificum). I don't know how well that would work in practice, but it's an idea. I just want them because they're neat.

Re: Scientists Are Racing to Build a Better Diet Soda

#36

Post by jfroma »

jfroma wrote: post #32
pasbesoin wrote: post #14

TL;DR: You don't have to use it in the manner in which it is packaged. Another trick: Cut your soda with water. I think it's still preferable to avoid soda, but if you like the taste and/or want a bit of a boost, try mixing it 50/50 with water. Or less. I like Coke Classic this way. Or, particularly on a hot day, pour over a glass full of ice. Slowly sip away as the ice continues to melt. I still think this is a slip…

My father told me that my grand parent used to cut Coke with carbonated water when it first appeared in Argentina because of two reasons 1- it was very sweet and the people wasn't used to that. 2- because it was very expensive. He said that the 750ml bottle was enough for the 4 member family, one glass per person. When the 1L bottle came out, it was a problem they didn't know how to hand out the remaining, so they de…

BTW my grand parent is 87 today and is very healthy.

Re: Scientists Are Racing to Build a Better Diet Soda

#37

Post by dbbolton »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #5
kmicklas wrote: post #3

Is there any reason not to just use artificial sweeteners besides unfounded fears in the public? And would all this research money not be better spent on advertising and attempts to influence public perception?

>Is there any reason not to just use artificial sweeteners besides unfounded fears in the public? artificial sweeteners stimulate appetite and promote weight gain http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892765/pdf/yjbm... Aspartame and depression: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8373935 SURVEY OF ASPARTAME STUDIES: CORRELATION OF OUTCOME AND FUNDING SOURCES http://www.dorway.com/peerrev.html >And would all th…

>artificial sweeteners stimulate appetite and promote weight gain

Just like all studies seeking to link artificial sweeteners to weight gain, it's a correlational argument that is not specific to artificial sweeteners. The "neurobiology of food reward" is the exact same for sugar and artificial sweeteners unless you happen to be purposefully depriving yourself of calories, in which case the sweetener cannot be blamed.

The heart of the problem is psychosocial, not biochemical. Overweight people are more likely to choose reduced calorie foods than people who are not overweight.

There is also such a thing as cognitive bias. People who are overweight and/or trying to lose weight will often end up using their exercise and calorie reductions as "credits" toward food choices (e.g., 'Since I'm having a Diet Soda, it's OK if I get the Extra Large fries because the calories cancel out') and don't actually end up burning more calories than they take in.

If you could demonstrate in controlled conditions that (ideally more than 13[1]) people who eat and exercise in moderation suddenly start gaining weight when artificial sweeteners are added to their diet (or losing weight when they are removed), it might be an interesting finding.

>Aspartame and depression

[1] - "Despite the small n" ... possibly the understatement of the century.

>SURVEY OF ASPARTAME STUDIES

If anyone has actual evidence of failure to disclose a conflict of interest in a published study, then it should be reported to the relevant institutions, not used as a platform to denounce all research on a topic.

Re: Scientists Are Racing to Build a Better Diet Soda

#38

Post by jghn »

_JamesA_ wrote: post #34
iLoch wrote: post #6

This is probably a crazy idea: drink less soda. When it comes to pop, I usually stick to cola - and when it's cola I'll never buy it unless it is made with real cane sugar. Boom, potential side effects of artificial sweeteners are gone, and the drink tastes way better. And just drink more water. Why is this so hard for people?

"When it comes to pop, I usually stick to cola..." As someone not from the Northeastern USA what does that even mean? Pop, cola, soda and more regularly "coke" (the word not the brand) are all used to refer to soft drinks in general.

It means the darker stuff which actually looks like coca-cola.

The use of "coke" as a generic term is itself a regionalism of the southeastern US. "Pop" has the largest geographical coverage

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2012-11-09-Screenshot201211...

Re: Scientists Are Racing to Build a Better Diet Soda

#39

Post by TTPrograms »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #5
kmicklas wrote: post #3

Is there any reason not to just use artificial sweeteners besides unfounded fears in the public? And would all this research money not be better spent on advertising and attempts to influence public perception?

>Is there any reason not to just use artificial sweeteners besides unfounded fears in the public? artificial sweeteners stimulate appetite and promote weight gain http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892765/pdf/yjbm... Aspartame and depression: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8373935 SURVEY OF ASPARTAME STUDIES: CORRELATION OF OUTCOME AND FUNDING SOURCES http://www.dorway.com/peerrev.html >And would all th…

Now compare that against the hundreds of papers describing the negative impact of sugar consumption.

You're comparing subtle, little understood second order effects to a first order caloric increase due to sugar intake that we know is the leading cause in the modern obesity epidemic. N=40 single studies demonstrating minor differences can't compete with the massive body of evidence against caloric sweeteners.

Re: Scientists Are Racing to Build a Better Diet Soda

#40

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

fluidcruft wrote: post #27
fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Is there any reason not to just use artificial sweeteners besides unfounded fears in the public? artificial sweeteners stimulate appetite and promote weight gain http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892765/pdf/yjbm... Aspartame and depression: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8373935 SURVEY OF ASPARTAME STUDIES: CORRELATION OF OUTCOME AND FUNDING SOURCES http://www.dorway.com/peerrev.html >And would all th…

> artificial sweeteners stimulate appetite and promote weight gain I do not see evidence or argument in your link to support your summary. The closest I found was mention of a large observational study where people that were observed to became fatter used more sugar substitute. The difference between the groups of +2lbs was statistically significant, but seems irrelevant given the obvious observational confound of pe…

Take it up with the author. My point was to dispute the GP poster's assertion that random public persons' concerns are unfounded. The existence of such studies absent a firm conclusion from the studies makes it an open question.
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