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MSBuild is now open source on GitHub

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Re: MSBuild is now open source on GitHub

#131
The problem with MSBuild is that it tends to get used for things for which it is not really designed.

MSBuild was originally designed as a file format for Visual Studio solution and project files, generally intended to be managed by a GUI. If all you are interested in is spitting out binaries, it works pretty well, and the fact that it adds a ton of extensibility is actually quite useful.

It becomes problematic though when people try to use it to manage their entire end-to-end build process -- running tests, generating reports, stopping and starting servers, manipulating configuration files and so on. When you get to that level you really need a proper scripting language with a clean, readable way of expressing loops, conditions and subroutines, and that's where MSBuild falls down -- XML is horrible for that kind of thing, and the declarative, task-based paradigm simply isn't flexible enough.

Unfortunately, because of the all too common insistence of many .NET teams on being spoon-fed by Microsoft, a lot of projects stick with MSBuild for their entire end-to-end build process regardless, simply because they believe That Is How Microsoft Wants You To Do It.

Re: MSBuild is now open source on GitHub

#132

Fantastic. As a .NET Developer, who has been forced into doing Ruby and Java development, I really miss the .NET framework and c#. I'm hoping that this move toward open source will help more open-source projects adopt .NET. C# is such a wonderful language and anything that helps make it more mainstream in the open-source community is a Good Thing.

As a .NET developer who has wholly abandoned Ruby and it's culture, I'm having the time of my life! C# and Visual Studio are seriously good tools. I'm using Typescript and Angular, too. Good times!

This * 10000.

Re: MSBuild is now open source on GitHub

#134

Licensed under MIT, impressive.

All of the Microsoft technologies which have been open sourced over the last couple months have been under MIT which is really strange actually as Mono is licensed under LGPL2 which is actually more restrictive!

Fancy that, how times have changed.

Re: MSBuild is now open source on GitHub

#135

The problem with MSBuild is that it tends to get used for things for which it is not really designed. MSBuild was originally designed as a file format for Visual Studio solution and project files, generally intended to be managed by a GUI. If all you are interested in is spitting out binaries, it works pretty well, and the fact that it adds a ton of extensibility is actually quite useful. It becomes problematic thoug…

This * 10000.

Better alternatives include: https://github.com/psake/psake & https://github.com/fsharp/FAKE

Re: MSBuild is now open source on GitHub

#136

The problem with MSBuild is that it tends to get used for things for which it is not really designed. MSBuild was originally designed as a file format for Visual Studio solution and project files, generally intended to be managed by a GUI. If all you are interested in is spitting out binaries, it works pretty well, and the fact that it adds a ton of extensibility is actually quite useful. It becomes problematic thoug…

> XML is horrible for that kind of thing, and the declarative, task-based paradigm simply isn't flexible enough.

Of course! That's why the Java world uses maven

It makes no sense, but hey, it's XML

Re: MSBuild is now open source on GitHub

#137

The problem with MSBuild is that it tends to get used for things for which it is not really designed. MSBuild was originally designed as a file format for Visual Studio solution and project files, generally intended to be managed by a GUI. If all you are interested in is spitting out binaries, it works pretty well, and the fact that it adds a ton of extensibility is actually quite useful. It becomes problematic thoug…

This * 10000. Better alternatives include: https://github.com/psake/psake & https://github.com/fsharp/FAKE

Both of which are well worth considering. There was a UserVoice suggestion for Microsoft to support PowerShell as an alternative to MSBuild in Visual Studio [1] but it was declined, which was a disappointment.

Personally up to now I've used Python for my build scripts given the choice, but more recently I've been using Grunt/Node.js, and I think that's likely to be my go-to tool going forward. Its ability to watch a bunch of files and run targets when any of them change (e.g. Less/CoffeeScript) is one particular thing that's got me hooked.

[1] https://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visual-stud...

Re: MSBuild is now open source on GitHub

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that Ruby and Java are "bad". I just will always have a special place in my heart for c#, as it was my first language.

You will lose that feeling after 30 years. I have no special place for ZX Spectrum Basic anymore.

... Whereas I still love BBC BASIC and 6502 assembly. Some things are classics that will never go out of style.

Re: MSBuild is now open source on GitHub

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that Ruby and Java are "bad". I just will always have a special place in my heart for c#, as it was my first language.

You will lose that feeling after 30 years. I have no special place for ZX Spectrum Basic anymore.

@gaius: You love it in a way that you do projects with them now? That you would choose it over something "better" (Z80,68k assembler?)?

Or do you love the nostalgia, the feeling you had when you were programming your first computer and BBC Basic is a token for that which evokes this feeling?

Because I also have fond memories and a warm glow from ZX Spectrums and Amstrad CPCs. But I do not love Z80 assembler or Locomotive Basic.

Re: MSBuild is now open source on GitHub

#140

MSBuild is great and all but seriously why bother when there's better alternatives available - i.e. Fake? https://github.com/fsharp/FAKE

I was curious to see what would happen with build systems when they first announced the open source/cross platform. Initially I figured maybe something like FAKE or scriptcs based so we could break away from msbuild and powershell. But then they announced cmake and now this.

This was inevitable from the announcement last year, but I'm afraid the community has not spoken on this, per say. One of the benefits of the open source community is that ideas get to duke it out in the wild and the most fit will survive. How long will we be saddled with msbuild? Maybe some brave heroes will create an alternative some day? There is a lot of legacy stuff that has not been properly vetted. Will be interesting to see what happens.

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