The Dark Web’s Top Drug Market, Evolution, Just Vanished • Hacker News Board

Re: The Dark Web’s Top Drug Market, Evolution, Just Vanished

#91

Post by downandout » Thu, Mar 19, 2015, 12:57 AM UTC

davej wrote: post #88

downandout wrote: post #75

Not to add insult to injury, but these people posting on Reddit complaining about the money they have lost are opening themselves up to massive prison sentences. Reddit is a US site; all it takes to arrest everyone posting is to subpoena Reddit, get their IP's/emails/whatever, then raid their houses looking for drugs and whatever other contraband the police can find. Complaining publicly that you lost money on a site…

Is it illegal to use these sites? Surely, they would have to explicitly say that they purchased/sold drugs (or something else illegal) for a subpoena and later search warrant to be legal.

Is it illegal to use them? No. Does talking about how much money you lost when a known illegal drug marketplace goes down give the police probable cause to believe that you may be dealing or buying drugs? Most likely, yes.

Re: The Dark Web’s Top Drug Market, Evolution, Just Vanished

#92

Post by leohutson » Thu, Mar 19, 2015, 12:57 AM UTC

DennisP wrote: post #89

darkmighty wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to trust either the buyer or the arbitrator actually. In this case some money might have been lost due to malicious buyers (and the absent arbitrator).

You have to trust the arbitrator to make fair decisions, but the arbitrator has no ability to steal the money. The transaction simply moves funds between buyer and seller. If buyer and seller both sign the transaction, it completes without the arbitrator's involvement. If buyer and seller dispute, then the one who hopes to complete the transaction signs it and contacts the arbitrator, who will either sign, or not sig…

If both the buyer and the arbitrator are anonymous, how do you know that they aren't the same person?

Re: The Dark Web’s Top Drug Market, Evolution, Just Vanished

#93

Post by limorelbaz » Thu, Mar 19, 2015, 12:57 AM UTC

The original article on wired magazine now returns 404, but we're starting a discussion about this on http://www.peerlyst.com/discussions/the-dark-webs-top-drug-m...

Peerlyst is a community of 17K+ security professionals, discussing 25 areas of security (content security, cryptography, identity management, privacy etc). Once joining, you get a feed relevant to your areas of interest.

Re: The Dark Web’s Top Drug Market, Evolution, Just Vanished

#94

Post by rodgerd » Thu, Mar 19, 2015, 12:59 AM UTC

stordoff wrote: post #79

downandout wrote: post #75

Not to add insult to injury, but these people posting on Reddit complaining about the money they have lost are opening themselves up to massive prison sentences. Reddit is a US site; all it takes to arrest everyone posting is to subpoena Reddit, get their IP's/emails/whatever, then raid their houses looking for drugs and whatever other contraband the police can find. Complaining publicly that you lost money on a site…

I'd presume they are posting to Reddit cia TOR, so I doubt subpoenaing Reddit would give much new information.

If you're the kind of person who is smart enough to use Tor properly, you're the kind of person who is unlikely to be complaining about money you lost in drug trades on a high-profile web site.

Re: The Dark Web’s Top Drug Market, Evolution, Just Vanished

#95

Post by enraged_camel » Thu, Mar 19, 2015, 1:03 AM UTC

rodgerd wrote: post #94

stordoff wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd presume they are posting to Reddit cia TOR, so I doubt subpoenaing Reddit would give much new information.

If you're the kind of person who is smart enough to use Tor properly, you're the kind of person who is unlikely to be complaining about money you lost in drug trades on a high-profile web site.

Even smart people make mistakes, especially after seeing other seemingly smart people making those mistakes.

Re: The Dark Web’s Top Drug Market, Evolution, Just Vanished

#96

Post by antihero » Thu, Mar 19, 2015, 1:20 AM UTC

at-fates-hands wrote: post #13

"NSWGreat described confronting Evolution’s two pseudonymous owners, Verto and Kimble, who he or she says then admitted they were closing the market and stealing its funds. “I am so sorry, but Verto and Kimble have f–ked us all. " With no chat logs, all we go by is this guy's word? What are the odds he was in on the heist? Also, this reminds me of when Max Butler did a brute force take over of all the carders markets…

Also if people buy it, this guy has free reign to pick any two people on the planet that he doesn't like and effectively end their lives.

Re: The Dark Web’s Top Drug Market, Evolution, Just Vanished

#97

Post by DennisP » Thu, Mar 19, 2015, 1:24 AM UTC

leohutson wrote: post #92

DennisP wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to trust the arbitrator to make fair decisions, but the arbitrator has no ability to steal the money. The transaction simply moves funds between buyer and seller. If buyer and seller both sign the transaction, it completes without the arbitrator's involvement. If buyer and seller dispute, then the one who hopes to complete the transaction signs it and contacts the arbitrator, who will either sign, or not sig…

If both the buyer and the arbitrator are anonymous, how do you know that they aren't the same person?

They're actually pseudonymous, so they can have reputations. If the other party insists on an arbitrator you've never heard of, you probably shouldn't agree to those terms.

Re: The Dark Web’s Top Drug Market, Evolution, Just Vanished

#98

Post by moe » Thu, Mar 19, 2015, 1:45 AM UTC

leohutson wrote: post #92

DennisP wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to trust the arbitrator to make fair decisions, but the arbitrator has no ability to steal the money. The transaction simply moves funds between buyer and seller. If buyer and seller both sign the transaction, it completes without the arbitrator's involvement. If buyer and seller dispute, then the one who hopes to complete the transaction signs it and contacts the arbitrator, who will either sign, or not sig…

If both the buyer and the arbitrator are anonymous, how do you know that they aren't the same person?

The arbitrator will usually be known by reputation, i.e. always the same key id.

Re: The Dark Web’s Top Drug Market, Evolution, Just Vanished

#99

Post by aeykie » Thu, Mar 19, 2015, 1:55 AM UTC

lhc- wrote: post #34

Karunamon wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A side benefit, but I wouldn't say the whole point. There are some cases where middlemen are necessary - the difference being that they're a lot more avoidable with BTC than they are in meatspace. (Credit cards, authorities who rob people carrying large amounts of cash, and so on.)

I'm not positive that bitcoins offer much more protection from robbery than cash, given the situation here.

They offered protection, though didn't they? Evolution had multiescrow, they wouldn't have gotten those funds would they have?

Re: The Dark Web’s Top Drug Market, Evolution, Just Vanished

#100

Post by olefoo » Thu, Mar 19, 2015, 3:40 AM UTC

stordoff wrote: post #79

downandout wrote: post #75

Not to add insult to injury, but these people posting on Reddit complaining about the money they have lost are opening themselves up to massive prison sentences. Reddit is a US site; all it takes to arrest everyone posting is to subpoena Reddit, get their IP's/emails/whatever, then raid their houses looking for drugs and whatever other contraband the police can find. Complaining publicly that you lost money on a site…

I'd presume they are posting to Reddit cia TOR, so I doubt subpoenaing Reddit would give much new information.

Given that these are people who put significant amounts of money at risk in unregulated and outright illegal businesses; you may be making unwarranted assumptions about their intelligence and operational security.