Andreessen Horowitz-Backed Leap Buses Are Hitting SF Streets This Week • Hacker News Board

Re: Andreessen Horowitz-Backed Leap Buses Are Hitting SF Streets This Week

#41

Post by drzaiusapelord » Wed, Mar 18, 2015, 2:38 PM UTC

AWolfAtTheDoor wrote: post #4

It seems like San Francisco is one of the few places where you can have a company completely fail, only to see it revamp its product in a way that it will probably completely fail again. While I can't speak for San Francisco's bus system, everything about this product video screams to me that the solution that is being provided here does not actually solve a problem other than "I am white, privileged, and want to rid…

> "I am white, privileged, and want to ride on a fancy looking bus where I can buy a Vita Coco.

Uh, lets not place the race card here. In all major US cities we have 100+ years of political corruption, union protectionism, bad planning, kick the can mentality, etc that have led to a shitty level of public services. A non-government competitor can help to keep the government honest as people see how much better things can be. As a Chicagoan, my advice is, don't become like Chicago. We ran full tilt towards the "don't challenge the government, we know best" approach which just led to the corrupt machine politics that is driving the city into bankruptcy. I would love to take a non-CTA bus to work. I can't see how anyone could possibly do worse than the CTA bus system.

>Some critics have raised worries that these bus startups, like Chariot and competitor Leap Transit, will cause the broader public to disinvest in the city’s municipal transit system.

This is a feature, not a bug. I mean, should universities and hospitals give up on their private bus system because it "threatens" the public one? If the public system is so terrible, continuing to prop it up makes no sense.

Personally, the idea that we need to build this ultra-egalitarian society is highly hypocritical, especially on an entrepreneurial forum like HN. Yeah, I'm willing to pay to not ride with crackheads and criminals. There's nothing wrong with that, the same way I bought a house far away from crackheads and criminals.

Re: Andreessen Horowitz-Backed Leap Buses Are Hitting SF Streets This Week

#42

Post by AWolfAtTheDoor » Wed, Mar 18, 2015, 2:38 PM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #35

AWolfAtTheDoor wrote: post #4

It seems like San Francisco is one of the few places where you can have a company completely fail, only to see it revamp its product in a way that it will probably completely fail again. While I can't speak for San Francisco's bus system, everything about this product video screams to me that the solution that is being provided here does not actually solve a problem other than "I am white, privileged, and want to rid…

[deleted]

Anyone in the United States can get an iPhone 5S (and perhaps even a 6) for free somewhere on contract if they look around. If they really want to spend next to nothing, second hand 5 models are not much more expensive than most budget Android phones and will get far more mileage.

It's not an issue of Android versus iPhone here.

Re: Andreessen Horowitz-Backed Leap Buses Are Hitting SF Streets This Week

#43

Post by pbreit » Wed, Mar 18, 2015, 2:39 PM UTC

AWolfAtTheDoor wrote: post #18

ceallen wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who drop an extra 4 dollars so their morning commute is reliable and moderately pleasant are now white privileged elite. I'd hate to hear what you think of people who drive cars. Wanting to be at work on time without allotting an extra 30 minutes for public transit shenanigans is hardly the epitome of privilege.

What aspect of a fancy bus that drives in normal traffic like any other bus (or car, assuming there are not bus-only lanes) makes it any more capable of getting a person to their destination sooner? Addendum: this is a private company that technically speaking does not have to adhere to any schedule and isn't liable for various things (according to the TOS posted in this tree), so if anything you're more likely to be…

It's liable to customer preference, one thing the public busses are not.

Re: Andreessen Horowitz-Backed Leap Buses Are Hitting SF Streets This Week

#44

Post by kriro » Wed, Mar 18, 2015, 2:40 PM UTC

With the obvious disclaimers about the TOC and potential safety issues I do like the overall idea. I commute roughly 50 minutes each way by train and prefer it a lot over going by car even if a car is more felxible. The major benefit for me is that I can read (or use my laptop).

I think the "open area" and especially the "opt in share info stuff" has the potential to be the most game changing. I'd really enjoy commuting even more if I had the option to socialize with interesting people. The typical train layout and general no-contact atmosphere on trains isn't really helping much.

Especially in SV I can imagine some quite interesting discussions and talks while commuting. In fact I could imagine riding that bus even if I didn't have to travel which is a pretty good sign.

Aside from "not a travel company/safety" concerns my biggest issue is scale. Doesn't look like a ton of people fit on these buses. It might also work better for longer routes than the typical inner city stuff (plenty of people living outside core SV that wouldn't mind long route buses I'd guess)

Re: Andreessen Horowitz-Backed Leap Buses Are Hitting SF Streets This Week

#45

Post by drzaiusapelord » Wed, Mar 18, 2015, 2:41 PM UTC

solve wrote: post #9

cpursley wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, they should drop all the frills. And those seats without backs looks terribly uncomfortable if not unsafe.

Take away the bus-style seats, and it's now more like a tram/trolly/subway/european busses, from the rider's perspective. This open layout is vastly better than the traditional US bus layout. Feels safer, less trapped. This is the right direction to be going, as public transportation in most of the rest of the world has already proven long ago.

>Take away the seats

It must be wonderful to be so young and healthy and not have any issues that keep you from standing 60+ minutes on a moving and uneven platform.

Re: Andreessen Horowitz-Backed Leap Buses Are Hitting SF Streets This Week

#46

Post by jusben1369 » Wed, Mar 18, 2015, 2:42 PM UTC

AWolfAtTheDoor wrote: post #4

It seems like San Francisco is one of the few places where you can have a company completely fail, only to see it revamp its product in a way that it will probably completely fail again. While I can't speak for San Francisco's bus system, everything about this product video screams to me that the solution that is being provided here does not actually solve a problem other than "I am white, privileged, and want to rid…

I'll admit the video is a little cringe worthy with hipsters and Vita Coco. But your criticisms are unfair and unfounded. Airplanes sell a range of seating options that have a price to comfort ratio. Train travellers have always had multiple cabins and pricing choices. Car services range from cheap taxis to black cars to take you to the airport. So there's no reason bus transportation can't offer an alternative to the current offering that's more expensive and therefore has better amenities.

In general I'm completely bearish though on these new types of public transportation options. We're about 10 - 15 years away from self driving electric cars that could fit 2 - 4 or 8 people based on design that will optimize route choices and pick you up from your door and drop you at the door you want to go whether that's 3 miles away or intercity. And the economics are already there ($6 probably gets you a long way is a Lyft rideshare right now) Leap could pivot to support that new model but I think super large vehicles on fixed routes is going the way of the dinosaur.

Re: Andreessen Horowitz-Backed Leap Buses Are Hitting SF Streets This Week

#47

Post by gtaylor » Wed, Mar 18, 2015, 2:42 PM UTC

AWolfAtTheDoor wrote: post #18

ceallen wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who drop an extra 4 dollars so their morning commute is reliable and moderately pleasant are now white privileged elite. I'd hate to hear what you think of people who drive cars. Wanting to be at work on time without allotting an extra 30 minutes for public transit shenanigans is hardly the epitome of privilege.

What aspect of a fancy bus that drives in normal traffic like any other bus (or car, assuming there are not bus-only lanes) makes it any more capable of getting a person to their destination sooner? Addendum: this is a private company that technically speaking does not have to adhere to any schedule and isn't liable for various things (according to the TOS posted in this tree), so if anything you're more likely to be…

They specifically mention that they'll eventually intelligently figure out where they need to stop based on who signs up for a ride on the smartphone app. That seems like a pretty big potential win, in that they could do all sorts of creative things to minimize or control stops on the way.

It's worth a shot. I like seeing experiments like this that public transit can't do, even if it ultimately ends up failing.

Re: Andreessen Horowitz-Backed Leap Buses Are Hitting SF Streets This Week

#48

Post by AWolfAtTheDoor » Wed, Mar 18, 2015, 2:43 PM UTC

ahallock wrote: post #31

AWolfAtTheDoor wrote: post #4

It seems like San Francisco is one of the few places where you can have a company completely fail, only to see it revamp its product in a way that it will probably completely fail again. While I can't speak for San Francisco's bus system, everything about this product video screams to me that the solution that is being provided here does not actually solve a problem other than "I am white, privileged, and want to rid…

Your comment is hyperbolic and race baiting. That this new service solves a problem or adds anything of value is up to the consumer. Maybe there are certain amenities that people want and will pay extra for. There's nothing wrong with that. In your world, it sounds like we should only use the bare minimum and everything else is waste and privilege.

Your statement to an extent is correct, but at the same time it also supports the fact that those who have the ability to pay more for something are not privileged to be able to.

I would love to see the public transit systems improved, busses included. The issue here is that the privatized system and frills that the Leap busses have, which for all intents and purposes are mostly unnecessary, scream upper class while coming across as if the goal is to improve the entire public transit system, when in reality it isn't anywhere near the case.

Re: Andreessen Horowitz-Backed Leap Buses Are Hitting SF Streets This Week

#49

Post by drzaiusapelord » Wed, Mar 18, 2015, 2:43 PM UTC

untog wrote: post #8

I'll be interested to see how this works from afar in New York. To my mind it's likely to just make for more traffic and not take a sizable number of cars off the road, but I'd love to be proven wrong.

If you're taking from drivers that means less cars. If you're taking from public trans, that means the city has to lower the number of buses on that route because the competition has taken their customers. Win-win as far as I can see.

Re: Andreessen Horowitz-Backed Leap Buses Are Hitting SF Streets This Week

#50

Post by jusben1369 » Wed, Mar 18, 2015, 2:45 PM UTC

jsprogrammer wrote: post #6

AWolfAtTheDoor wrote: post #4

It seems like San Francisco is one of the few places where you can have a company completely fail, only to see it revamp its product in a way that it will probably completely fail again. While I can't speak for San Francisco's bus system, everything about this product video screams to me that the solution that is being provided here does not actually solve a problem other than "I am white, privileged, and want to rid…

You might also want to look at the discussion of their TOS from yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9220210 Basically, the TOS disclaims pretty much everything claimed by their marketing material (ie. they are not a transportation company, don't claim to be one, don't make any guarantees or promises about what they do, etc; also, you are dependent on the bus driver to actually transport you because the dr…

They're in a super competitive market (Other public transport, Lyft, Uber etc) If they don't provide a valuable reliable service they'll pay the ultimate price. Public transportation companies may or may not have a better TOS but the question is what happens to them if they don't hit their TOS? Nothing because they're taxpayer funded/subsidized.