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Breastfeeding 'linked to higher IQ'

bbc.com

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Re: Breastfeeding 'linked to higher IQ'

#71

Post by stdbrouw »

e12e wrote: post #60
paulfr wrote: post #22

Just 2 weeks ago, I won a machine learning contest with a $20,000 prize pool where the goal was to predict the IQ of a child at age 7, based on various biological measurements and demographic indicators. The data includes whether a child was breastfed. After reading the article I did some very quick computations and my finding based on the model I developed is that children who were not breastfed have an IQ impairmen…

Thank you for taking the time to comment about your work. I came to comment on the headline, basically to say that "Breastfeeding 'linked to higher IQ'" sounds awfully backwards -- surely this isn't really a result "in favour of" breastfeeding, but rather pretty damning evidence against formulas/substitutes ? I like your formulation much better: > children who were not breastfed have an IQ impairment

Even if we ignore the issue of residual confounding for a moment, how is one IQ point "damning"?

Re: Breastfeeding 'linked to higher IQ'

#73

Post by jklinger410 »

mkagenius wrote: post #68
paulfr wrote: post #22

Just 2 weeks ago, I won a machine learning contest with a $20,000 prize pool where the goal was to predict the IQ of a child at age 7, based on various biological measurements and demographic indicators. The data includes whether a child was breastfed. After reading the article I did some very quick computations and my finding based on the model I developed is that children who were not breastfed have an IQ impairmen…

> impairment in the 1-3 IQ points range, after accounting for confounding factors. But 1-3 IQ points doesn't seem much, right? I mean, what difference would it make in real life activities?

This, but also, IQ isn't an exact score, right? Wouldn't this fit snugly within the margin of error?

Not only that, but are people even still using IQ as a metric of intelligence? As I understand it IQ is only a measure of one type of intelligence. I mean I'm all for giving a child every advantage you can fathom as a parent, so I think this is still kind of cool research, but I don't see how it equates to anything truly meaningful.

It kind of just adds one more point in the "breastfeeding is good" column.

Re: Breastfeeding 'linked to higher IQ'

#74

Post by mangeletti »

mkagenius wrote: post #68
paulfr wrote: post #22

Just 2 weeks ago, I won a machine learning contest with a $20,000 prize pool where the goal was to predict the IQ of a child at age 7, based on various biological measurements and demographic indicators. The data includes whether a child was breastfed. After reading the article I did some very quick computations and my finding based on the model I developed is that children who were not breastfed have an IQ impairmen…

> impairment in the 1-3 IQ points range, after accounting for confounding factors. But 1-3 IQ points doesn't seem much, right? I mean, what difference would it make in real life activities?

1-3 IQ points can mean the difference between living on Hamburger Helper in a tenement, and living on fresh lobster on a 300 foot yacht.

I'm kidding, btw.

Re: Breastfeeding 'linked to higher IQ'

#75

Post by streptomycin »

mkagenius wrote: post #68
paulfr wrote: post #22

Just 2 weeks ago, I won a machine learning contest with a $20,000 prize pool where the goal was to predict the IQ of a child at age 7, based on various biological measurements and demographic indicators. The data includes whether a child was breastfed. After reading the article I did some very quick computations and my finding based on the model I developed is that children who were not breastfed have an IQ impairmen…

> impairment in the 1-3 IQ points range, after accounting for confounding factors. But 1-3 IQ points doesn't seem much, right? I mean, what difference would it make in real life activities?

It's roughly the same as the change that happened when we stopped using leaded gas, which seems to have had a huge affect on society. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraethyllead#Toxicity

Also it's just one relatively simple thing. Imagine we find several things that can all increase IQ by a couple points...

Re: Breastfeeding 'linked to higher IQ'

#76

Post by UnoriginalGuy »

deepGem wrote: post #30
jwdunne wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some cases, the pressure to breastfeed can do more harm than good. If the parent is feeling stressed, as it can be an extremely intense and also painful experience, the bonding process can suffer. More importantly, some mothers just cannot produce enough milk. The father of my adopted son forced my wife to breastfeed. Over a 3 month period, the poor boy lost a dangerous amount of weight and needed a stay in hospit…

"More importantly, some mothers just cannot produce enough milk" - Is there any anecdotal evidence to prove this. One lactation consultant told us that this claim is totally false. According to her, all women who give birth can and will produce enough breast milk and she had the evidence to prove that.

She sounds like a real peach.

Honestly that opinion seems more colored by her political views (i.e. breast feeding good, formula evil) than any scientific or medical evidence.

I've met lactation consultants just like that, and they often go into diatribes about how hospitals/doctors are evil and push formula on new mothers (which wasn't true at all, in fact the hospital we used had a nurse specifically to help mothers breastfeed and offered heavily subsidised classes).

While getting started with breastfeeding is hard and mothers should be encouraged to keep at it. Some mothers simply never produce, even after trying that hard, or that long. At a point you're putting your child's life in danger if you keep trying without results (and, no, I do not mean after just a few hours -- that's normal, I mean days).

Honestly I'm pro breastfeeding but I find a lot of other pro breastfeeding people insufferable. No, sorry, but people are in fact good mothers or fathers if they use formula. No, sorry, they aren't automatically ignorant if they use formula. No, sorry, you or your child aren't superior because you breastfeed. No, sorry, it really isn't appropriate to approach random people in the street and lecture them on why they're raising their child wrong.

Re: Breastfeeding 'linked to higher IQ'

#77

Post by darkmighty »

paulfr wrote: post #70
e12e wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for taking the time to comment about your work. I came to comment on the headline, basically to say that "Breastfeeding 'linked to higher IQ'" sounds awfully backwards -- surely this isn't really a result "in favour of" breastfeeding, but rather pretty damning evidence against formulas/substitutes ? I like your formulation much better: > children who were not breastfed have an IQ impairment

I see the article climbing back up the front page, and I want to make it abundantly clear that I don't believe that there is necessarily a causal relation from breastfeeding vs formula to IQ. I could control for demographic factors, but not for other major important factors in a child's development -- parental IQ or views regarding parenting are huge factors in a child's IQ, and they may also influence the decision o…

I really think this shouldn't get this much attention without double blind trials. Specially for a difference as marginal as 1-3 IQ points.

Re: Breastfeeding 'linked to higher IQ'

#78

Post by cheatsheet »

streptomycin wrote: post #75
mkagenius wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> impairment in the 1-3 IQ points range, after accounting for confounding factors. But 1-3 IQ points doesn't seem much, right? I mean, what difference would it make in real life activities?

It's roughly the same as the change that happened when we stopped using leaded gas, which seems to have had a huge affect on society. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraethyllead#Toxicity Also it's just one relatively simple thing. Imagine we find several things that can all increase IQ by a couple points...

I've never gotten my IQ tested, but when I read about studies like these - they usually demoralize me from fear of competitive behavior. I think this leads to low self esteem, and the imagining that I have a low IQ (high marks through schooling and post graduate education, MSc, possible imposter syndrome) as my default attitude. It can be a self defeating attitude, but what it usually does is make me argue with people about IQ tests, and explain why they are not necessarily indicative of intelligence, individually or globally.

I can imagine that merely the act of measuring IQ has significant effect on the population. I can not imagine a population that exists without it, but I imagine it would also have a huge effect on society, as you similarly hypothesize about the 1-3 point increase across the population globally.

Re: Breastfeeding 'linked to higher IQ'

#79

Post by charlieflowers »

paulfr wrote: post #43
johnloeber wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, that's very interesting work. I'd love to see a write-up -- not just with respect to breastfeeding, but generally on your findings.

I found a big improvement to my model just after the contest was over, so I made a proposal to develop the improved model and do some more in-depth analysis. I'm currently waiting for their reply! If they accept I'll have an opportunity to look deeper -- it's one thing to develop an efficient model, but fully exploiting it in order to gain a better understanding of the data takes some work. A limitation of these cont…

Pardon a possibly dumb question, but what are kinds of data are considered "demographic" in your specific case? Can you give some examples?

Re: Breastfeeding 'linked to higher IQ'

#80

Post by rayiner »

grandalf wrote: post #69
rayiner wrote: post #59

The 1-3 point IQ advantage is widely and consistently reported in the literature, and it's probably right as far as it goes. However, studies that additionally adjust for socioenvironmental factors (mothers who breastfeed are more likely to read to kids, have larger vocabularies, etc), show results around 1 IQ point: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1633786 . The "mothers should have the option" bit in the…

> Breastfeeding removes the father's ability to independently take care of an infant. Because feeding is a bonding experience, this creates a dynamic where the child looks at the mother as the last line in being comforted. This is a choice couples can make, but it is one that involves trade offs, which the medical community ignores. What about a breast pump? As long as some lactating female provides milk, the milk ca…

I think in practice that's more of a way to "include the father in the process" than genuinely have him offload a task from the mother. I think for many if not most couples, it's almost as much work as breastfeeding and bottle feeding combined.
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