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YouTube puts the final nail in the loudness wars' coffin

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Re: YouTube puts the final nail in the loudness wars' coffin

#21

Post by thirdsun »

vanderZwan wrote: post #15
Joona wrote: post #3

Good. I absolutely hate videos that are so low volume that I have to turn Youtube up to 100%, and then adjust volume in Windows too, to hear anything. And then imagine finding one of the louder videos next. I've tried to give people advice on volume levels, but it feels like no one is willing to do it. Hopefully Twitch will do something similar soon, too.

I think that is exactly the motivation: avoiding the random shifts in volume between videos. Pushing back against the loudness war was probably just a bonus. It's like watching a series on TV and then getting blasted with EXTREMELY LOUD COMMERCIAL BREAKS (and they do that shit on purpose too).

Loudness of course isn't new to commercials, but recently I noticed that some TV shows are also compressed into oblivion, resulting in a very noticeable pumping effect between dialogue and the ambient noise in-between.

Re: YouTube puts the final nail in the loudness wars' coffin

#22

Post by polshaw »

>[on YT] Everything plays at a similar loudness, regardless of how it was mastered. And no-one has noticed.

None of us noticed; it seems like the labels and sound engineers may have; take this image comparing the dynamic range of the CD and youtube releases of Pharrell's "Happy"[1]- I thought at the time it might just have been a mishap or random occurance, but now it looks like it was a very deliberate move.

So, rather than ending the loudness wars on CDs and radio, we might end up long-term with the ludicrous situation where CD's sound worse than technically inferior Youtube videos. Youtube is the new vinyl.

-

E: I added links to the YT release[2] and (presumaby) a CD-sourced video[3] for anyone who wants to listen to the difference. Pay attention to the claps and drums (but I think it's obvious even on my laptop speakers).

1. https://imgur.com/KRj5DDS

2. https://youtu.be/ZbZSe6N_BXs

3. https://youtu.be/nVH6RcLHqMo

Re: YouTube puts the final nail in the loudness wars' coffin

#24

Post by raverbashing »

polshaw wrote: post #22

>[on YT] Everything plays at a similar loudness, regardless of how it was mastered. And no-one has noticed. None of us noticed; it seems like the labels and sound engineers may have; take this image comparing the dynamic range of the CD and youtube releases of Pharrell's "Happy"[1]- I thought at the time it might just have been a mishap or random occurance, but now it looks like it was a very deliberate move. So, rat…

Yeah if you buy commercial pop crap on CD it is going to sound crap regardless of compression.

"Better heard on Beats headphones" maybe?

Re: YouTube puts the final nail in the loudness wars' coffin

#25

Post by sooheon »

asgard1024 wrote: post #23

I am not sure it's the final nail. I think at some point they may start playing the commercials louder. I had to skip a lot of Czech commercials simply because they were too loud.

I can say that Korean Youtube commercials are so loud and jarring that they without fail inspire a keen and lasting hatred for the advertised product.

Re: YouTube puts the final nail in the loudness wars' coffin

#26

Post by 72deluxe »

polshaw wrote: post #22

>[on YT] Everything plays at a similar loudness, regardless of how it was mastered. And no-one has noticed. None of us noticed; it seems like the labels and sound engineers may have; take this image comparing the dynamic range of the CD and youtube releases of Pharrell's "Happy"[1]- I thought at the time it might just have been a mishap or random occurance, but now it looks like it was a very deliberate move. So, rat…

I noticed! I am a bass player who now happens to write software in the audio industry (I work for a company that makes hardware). But I noticed before coming here.

Some of the worst CDs in my record collection are: 1. Paul McCartney - Memory Almost Full (this is the worst album I own - considering Sir Paul left The Beatles over the mix of The Long and Winding Road, he should leave his own band over his master of this album.... I wonder if Phil Spector bribed Bob Ludwig to do that in time-delayed revenge???)

2. Rush - Vapor Trails (not helped by distortion during recording; it's one BIG square wave)

3. The Fratellis - Costello Music (distortion all the way through the album)

4. Red Hot Chili Peppers - Stadium Arcadium (there's no possible way to make the first track sound quiet, try it!); apparently the vinyl has a different master and sounds infinitely better.

5. Foo Fighters - One By One (boxy drum sound and non-compliant CD format aside [chock full of copy protection so you won't see "Compact Disc" on the CD at all....], it's loud loud loud).

I could go on.

Considering the effort musicians go to get the best sound engineers, recording equipment, A to D converters, studio time and instruments, to throw it all away on a LOUD CD seems stupid to me. It means the album won't stand the test of time, and will sound as abysmal in the future as the day it was released; it is very short-sighted to release a LOUD CD for commercial gain (radio??? does anyone master just for radio still?) in the short term.

Re: YouTube puts the final nail in the loudness wars' coffin

#27

Post by 72deluxe »

raverbashing wrote: post #24
polshaw wrote: post #22

>[on YT] Everything plays at a similar loudness, regardless of how it was mastered. And no-one has noticed. None of us noticed; it seems like the labels and sound engineers may have; take this image comparing the dynamic range of the CD and youtube releases of Pharrell's "Happy"[1]- I thought at the time it might just have been a mishap or random occurance, but now it looks like it was a very deliberate move. So, rat…

Yeah if you buy commercial pop crap on CD it is going to sound crap regardless of compression. "Better heard on Beats headphones" maybe?

Sorry, I couldn't hear your comment due to the overwhelming bass; it muddied up the mids and treble so I couldn't actually hear what you were saying?

Re: YouTube puts the final nail in the loudness wars' coffin

#28

Post by blfr »

tobr wrote: post #7

I wonder if this is about ending the "loudness war", or if it's more about helping amateur content with nearly inaudible levels. All the good reasons for compressing music or audio in general certainly apply to YouTube. The average viewer will probably listen through laptop speakers in a noisy environment, and a large dynamic range is not helpful to them. Also, does this mean they actually lower the volume of high RM…

It's probably about making their autoplay work. If you listen to a playlist, or just another video, you shouldn't need to adjust the volume constantly or risk blowing out your speakers.

Re: YouTube puts the final nail in the loudness wars' coffin

#29

Post by amelius »

Joona wrote: post #3

Good. I absolutely hate videos that are so low volume that I have to turn Youtube up to 100%, and then adjust volume in Windows too, to hear anything. And then imagine finding one of the louder videos next. I've tried to give people advice on volume levels, but it feels like no one is willing to do it. Hopefully Twitch will do something similar soon, too.

But this is a problem with the design of the software, not with the video.

Re: YouTube puts the final nail in the loudness wars' coffin

#30

Post by StavrosK »

72deluxe wrote: post #26
polshaw wrote: post #22

>[on YT] Everything plays at a similar loudness, regardless of how it was mastered. And no-one has noticed. None of us noticed; it seems like the labels and sound engineers may have; take this image comparing the dynamic range of the CD and youtube releases of Pharrell's "Happy"[1]- I thought at the time it might just have been a mishap or random occurance, but now it looks like it was a very deliberate move. So, rat…

I noticed! I am a bass player who now happens to write software in the audio industry (I work for a company that makes hardware). But I noticed before coming here. Some of the worst CDs in my record collection are: 1. Paul McCartney - Memory Almost Full (this is the worst album I own - considering Sir Paul left The Beatles over the mix of The Long and Winding Road, he should leave his own band over his master of this…

Try System of a Down's Holy Mountain, where the damn CD clips! I can't imagine who would let a CD track clip.
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