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The Ellen Pao Trial and Silicon Valley

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Re: The Ellen Pao Trial and Silicon Valley

#61

Post by x0x0 »

malvosenior wrote: post #59
tptacek wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ok to be uninformed about a random legal case. You don't have a duty to be informed about Pao. What's not OK is to casually and incorrectly declare yourself informed and then to provide an opinionated summary based on that false credential, which is what you've managed to do here.

Aside from Anechoic who gave a very appreciated correction to my comment, not a single person has provided any additional information. You keep saying I'm uninformed but you've not provided any information to this discussion. Please do! I want to know more.

Possibly the internet at large, or hn, doesn't consider it our jobs to babysit you. Type something like ellen pao lawsuit into google and educate yourself.

Re: The Ellen Pao Trial and Silicon Valley

#62

Post by malvosenior »

x0x0 wrote: post #61
malvosenior wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from Anechoic who gave a very appreciated correction to my comment, not a single person has provided any additional information. You keep saying I'm uninformed but you've not provided any information to this discussion. Please do! I want to know more.

Possibly the internet at large, or hn, doesn't consider it our jobs to babysit you. Type something like ellen pao lawsuit into google and educate yourself.

I provided data to support my case. Some people are attacking me but not providing a reason.

Saying "I'm right, but I refuse to prove it!" doesn't get you much.

Re: The Ellen Pao Trial and Silicon Valley

#63

Post by x0x0 »

malvosenior wrote: post #62
x0x0 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly the internet at large, or hn, doesn't consider it our jobs to babysit you. Type something like ellen pao lawsuit into google and educate yourself.

I provided data to support my case. Some people are attacking me but not providing a reason. Saying "I'm right, but I refuse to prove it!" doesn't get you much.

You provided cherry-picked facts, and couldn't even manage get the few you included right.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ellen+pao+lawsuit

Re: The Ellen Pao Trial and Silicon Valley

#64

Post by malvosenior »

x0x0 wrote: post #63
malvosenior wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I provided data to support my case. Some people are attacking me but not providing a reason. Saying "I'm right, but I refuse to prove it!" doesn't get you much.

You provided cherry-picked facts, and couldn't even manage get the few you included right. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ellen+pao+lawsuit

I'm disengaging with you because you're obviously here to troll. If you want to provide any additional information do it somewhere in this thread.

Re: The Ellen Pao Trial and Silicon Valley

#65

Post by tptacek »

malvosenior wrote: post #64
x0x0 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You provided cherry-picked facts, and couldn't even manage get the few you included right. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ellen+pao+lawsuit

I'm disengaging with you because you're obviously here to troll. If you want to provide any additional information do it somewhere in this thread.

That commenter is being a bit aggressive, but they don't appear to be trolling; their critique is valid. One of the oldest message board rhetorical tricks in the book is to use a grossly incomplete summary as an ambit claim, and then to retcon facts from the inevitable rebuttals into that argument. It shouldn't surprise you that people don't want to help you do that.

Re: The Ellen Pao Trial and Silicon Valley

#66

Post by malvosenior »

tptacek wrote: post #65
malvosenior wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm disengaging with you because you're obviously here to troll. If you want to provide any additional information do it somewhere in this thread.

That commenter is being a bit aggressive, but they don't appear to be trolling; their critique is valid. One of the oldest message board rhetorical tricks in the book is to use a grossly incomplete summary as an ambit claim, and then to retcon facts from the inevitable rebuttals into that argument. It shouldn't surprise you that people don't want to help you do that.

Their critique is: you're wrong but I won't tell you why.

I don't see how that's helpful. I don't know what you're suggesting we do either. You don't want to supply facts because they'll be "retcon"-ed? That's a new one.

Re: The Ellen Pao Trial and Silicon Valley

#67

Post by tptacek »

malvosenior wrote: post #66
tptacek wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That commenter is being a bit aggressive, but they don't appear to be trolling; their critique is valid. One of the oldest message board rhetorical tricks in the book is to use a grossly incomplete summary as an ambit claim, and then to retcon facts from the inevitable rebuttals into that argument. It shouldn't surprise you that people don't want to help you do that.

Their critique is: you're wrong but I won't tell you why. I don't see how that's helpful. I don't know what you're suggesting we do either. You don't want to supply facts because they'll be "retcon"-ed? That's a new one.

If it weren't obvious to anyone who'd been following the case how superficial your summary was, that would be a valid point.

Re: The Ellen Pao Trial and Silicon Valley

#68

Post by malvosenior »

tptacek wrote: post #67
malvosenior wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their critique is: you're wrong but I won't tell you why. I don't see how that's helpful. I don't know what you're suggesting we do either. You don't want to supply facts because they'll be "retcon"-ed? That's a new one.

If it weren't obvious to anyone who'd been following the case how superficial your summary was, that would be a valid point.

Ok, well if you can't provide any information then I'm afraid there's not much else for us to discuss.

Re: The Ellen Pao Trial and Silicon Valley

#69

Post by [deleted] »

StopWhining wrote: post #56
fweespeech wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument you reject social norms and have no responsibility to communicate effectively with people who embrace social norms is absurd.

Not my argument. I'm saying that social norms have failed and to hold them up as some infallible moral authority of how we should conduct ourselves is absurb. I will not let Generation Helicopter Parent dictate what emotions are acceptable and which ones aren't... especially since they themselves have ZERO experience with emotional nuance and leadership. You go treat people like robots for administrative ease and CYA…

[deleted]

Re: The Ellen Pao Trial and Silicon Valley

#70

Post by StopWhining2 »

[deleted] wrote: post #69
StopWhining wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not my argument. I'm saying that social norms have failed and to hold them up as some infallible moral authority of how we should conduct ourselves is absurb. I will not let Generation Helicopter Parent dictate what emotions are acceptable and which ones aren't... especially since they themselves have ZERO experience with emotional nuance and leadership. You go treat people like robots for administrative ease and CYA…

[deleted]

"you reject social norms and have no responsibility to communicate effectively" != "Just because the collective assumes Valentine's Day to be of importance has no bearing on my interactions"

You're citing social norms as the de facto mechanism of "communicating effectively" and damning all alternatives based on absolutely nothing.

I'm explaining the alternative, one that does NOT follow social norms, one that COMPENSATES for all of the flaws of the CYA police state culture you apparently subscribe to... you know, treating human beings as if they are capable of nuanced emotion instead of trying to assign at what times they need to feel what emotions... and you are doing everything in your power to avoid acknowledging it.

> I have everything I want.

Apparently, you don't want basic comparison skills.

> Valentine's day, regardless of your personal feelings, is relevant when choosing the timing of a gift to give to a woman

To which woman? The model of women you have BASED ON SOCIAL NORMS? Because it doesn't matter to my SO, and it clearly doesn't matter to Pao in any other way then to split administrative hairs. I'd venture to say Valentine's Day doesn't even matter to you, so WHO THE HELL is subscribing to this SOCIAL NORM you seem so desperate to defend?

Other than some theoretical woman you have to conjure up to give your position an angstrom of merit.

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