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Windows Hello – Biometric authentication to Windows 10 devices

blogs.windows.com

51–60 of 95 posts

Re: Windows Hello – Biometric authentication to Windows 10 devices

#51

I hope that PINs and such always remain alternatives to biometrics. My usual concern -- if the locally stored biometric data is compromised (malware, poor crypto, etc.), I need a way to "change my password", which isn't really possible for something like facial recognition. Likewise, I'm curious if there's a fallback authentication method for people who lose a finger, get their faces deformed, etc. That said, the who…

You should check out biometric key-binding, basically you take a biometric and a password to build a template that can only authenticate the user if both are present.

> Likewise, I'm curious if there's a fallback authentication method for people who lose a finger, get their faces deformed, etc.

Deformation is a very real challenge for biometrics, but there is also a lot of active research in the area.

Re: Windows Hello – Biometric authentication to Windows 10 devices

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure it could be done with paper folding.

Come to think of it... print a cylindrical projection of the photo and then wrap around a cylinder...

And then point a projector at it to warm up the paper at the right places.

I really wish biometrics would quit claiming to be significant improvements over anything but writing your password on a post-it on the computer. They all fall very quickly.

Re: Windows Hello – Biometric authentication to Windows 10 devices

#54
As someone who actively researches biometric authentication, when I hear/read someone saying that biometrics are "usernames" and not "passwords", I automatically think they fundamentally misunderstand what a biometric is.

A biometric is both a 'username' and a 'password' - for instance, when you access your computer/device/whatnot you type in your username and your password to identify to the system that you are requesting access (on mobile the account is implied). When using a biometric, the system will have a stored template (similar to a password) that it associates to the system user account, and in ideal situations you (the user) do not need to do anything other than be present to access the system resources. It's a difference between identification and verification. Do you go to your friends each time they ask you something and say "are you so and so?", or have you already identified who they are? Based on the video it seems that MS is starting to understand this difference. Check out the video at ~2:35. He sits down at the login screen, and it just opens the desktop. For consumer applications this is really the goal of any biometric system.

Now spoofing and biometric template data being stolen are still real problems. Unfortunately, spoofing is not a very hot topic in the biometric field (usually conferences only have a relatively small percentage of papers on the subject), but given more consumer applications I'm hoping more funding will start to head that way. Concerning biometric template data, no you can't change it in it's most raw format, your fingerprint is static..that's what so great about it. However, there are methods such as key-binding where the template is itself encrypted with a private key. This however leads to more passwords... In any case, it's unfortunately up to companies like MS to start paving the way to successful implementations - if the data breaches we hear about almost monthly (Uber, Target, etc) are any indication, your password is just as at risk as your fingerprint.

Re: Windows Hello – Biometric authentication to Windows 10 devices

#55

I hope that PINs and such always remain alternatives to biometrics. My usual concern -- if the locally stored biometric data is compromised (malware, poor crypto, etc.), I need a way to "change my password", which isn't really possible for something like facial recognition. Likewise, I'm curious if there's a fallback authentication method for people who lose a finger, get their faces deformed, etc. That said, the who…

You don't need to only worry about your device being compromised, your biometric credentials are being leaked by your mere existence . Before long, I can imagine someone being able to build facial models capable of fooling recognition systems using only a few source images. Your finger prints are everywhere . Iris would be a bit harder, for now, but potentially possible with an image of high enough resolution.

Yes, and the next step would be kinect-like 3D scanning and "video magnification" for pulse detection ( http://people.csail.mit.edu/mrub/vidmag/ ), but these too could be compromised with some effort.

That's why these should be used only as a replacement for usernames and not for passwords.

Re: Windows Hello – Biometric authentication to Windows 10 devices

#56
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biometrics have more in common with usernames than passwords.

Wouldn't it be more equivalent to a UUID, or am I neglecting something?

Same thing, really, in this context. The biometrics are what uniquely identify someone (username, UUID, whatever). The password is what provides authorization. The problem is biometrics are being treated as both the identifier and the authorization.

Re: Windows Hello – Biometric authentication to Windows 10 devices

#59

As someone who actively researches biometric authentication, when I hear/read someone saying that biometrics are "usernames" and not "passwords", I automatically think they fundamentally misunderstand what a biometric is. A biometric is both a 'username' and a 'password' - for instance, when you access your computer/device/whatnot you type in your username and your password to identify to the system that you are requ…

> if the data breaches we hear about almost monthly (Uber, Target, etc) are any indication, your password is just as at risk as your fingerprint.

Two things - let's assume these companies follow best practices and both the fingerprints, biometric details and passwords are all hashed. Still:

a) Unlike a password your biometric data is publicly obtainable.

b) You cannot change your biometric data after it's been compromised.

> As someone who actively researches biometric authentication,

If you are an expert in the field - I think you are doing people an active disservice by telling them the security is just as good.

Finally I think typing passwords just isn't that hard - everyone is used to it by now. I maybe odd in this - but its hard for me to see the greater degree of convenience as a huge breakthrough (even without the security implications).

Re: Windows Hello – Biometric authentication to Windows 10 devices

#60

As someone who actively researches biometric authentication, when I hear/read someone saying that biometrics are "usernames" and not "passwords", I automatically think they fundamentally misunderstand what a biometric is. A biometric is both a 'username' and a 'password' - for instance, when you access your computer/device/whatnot you type in your username and your password to identify to the system that you are requ…

"A biometric is both a 'username' and a 'password' "

This is true, but usually people don't go around showing their passwords to any camera they walk by or surface they touch. That is why people say that it is more appropriate for biometrics to identify someone than it is to provide their authentication.

"our password is just as at risk as your fingerprint."

Also true, but what do you do when these breaches happen if the data is biometric? You can't send out an e-mail asking people to change their fingerprints or face. With existing password infrastructures after a breach the infrastructure can be upgraded to prevent that breach, then the users can be told to change their passwords, then that vulnerability is closed. Once a person's biometric data is stolen (or just taken from the hundreds of sources of our biometric data we leave around daily in the form of pictures and fingerprints) that's it, you can't close whatever breach they used to get in and then move on, because the user can't change their "password" to one that has not been compromised. That account is forever breached.

Biometrics violate several of the requirements for something that can be used as authentication, which is why they are great as identifiers, but terrible as authenticators.

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