What Cockroaches with Backpacks Can Do • Hacker News Board

Re: What Cockroaches with Backpacks Can Do

#11

Post by jff » Tue, Mar 17, 2015, 5:10 PM UTC

orthecreedence wrote: post #9

Why stop at roaches? We could do this to dogs or small children! There's sometimes a tightrope between science and ethics, and this is just plain unethical. I'll start with the argument just about everyone can relate to. We all know this isn't going to actually help people in collapsed buildings or find lost wedding rings. It's going to be used by government spy agencies and military goons to control people in one wa…

> Third, for those who don't give a shit about anybody but humans, how long until this is used in humans?

I hear people are eating chickens and even cattle! How long until this is done to humans?!?!

Re: What Cockroaches with Backpacks Can Do

#12

Post by RIMR » Tue, Mar 17, 2015, 5:18 PM UTC

orthecreedence wrote: post #9

Why stop at roaches? We could do this to dogs or small children! There's sometimes a tightrope between science and ethics, and this is just plain unethical. I'll start with the argument just about everyone can relate to. We all know this isn't going to actually help people in collapsed buildings or find lost wedding rings. It's going to be used by government spy agencies and military goons to control people in one wa…

Take off that tin-foil hat! You seriously think the next logical step for this kind of tech is human slavery?

Wouldn't robotics be a better option for creating autonomous drones than taking over human brains? Also, wouldn't that create a lot less outrage? Seems like a simple choice:

* Spend 250,000 man-hours designing autonomous machines that can do repetitive tasks for us, bringing with it the pride of technological achievement.

* Spend 1,000,000+ man-hours hacking the human brain so that we can hijack people for slavery, bringing with it the shame of moral/ethical condemnation.

You really think that people in power are going to chose the more expensive, less ethical option?

This is much more of an exercise in understanding primitive brain structures. The fact that we have actually accomplished one of the fantasy-technologies from "The Fifth Element" is pretty incredible, actually. We have learned a lot about how biological neural networks work, and this is what we have to show for it.

And yes, it is "just a cockroach". Wait till you find out what we have been doing to monkeys for the past 50+ years!

Re: What Cockroaches with Backpacks Can Do

#13

Post by skwirl » Tue, Mar 17, 2015, 5:19 PM UTC

orthecreedence wrote: post #9

Why stop at roaches? We could do this to dogs or small children! There's sometimes a tightrope between science and ethics, and this is just plain unethical. I'll start with the argument just about everyone can relate to. We all know this isn't going to actually help people in collapsed buildings or find lost wedding rings. It's going to be used by government spy agencies and military goons to control people in one wa…

Are you parodying HN? If so, well done.

Re: What Cockroaches with Backpacks Can Do

#14

Post by GlickWick » Tue, Mar 17, 2015, 5:21 PM UTC

orthecreedence wrote: post #9

Why stop at roaches? We could do this to dogs or small children! There's sometimes a tightrope between science and ethics, and this is just plain unethical. I'll start with the argument just about everyone can relate to. We all know this isn't going to actually help people in collapsed buildings or find lost wedding rings. It's going to be used by government spy agencies and military goons to control people in one wa…

I hate this stupid kind of slippery slope argument. If you fear everything being used by the NSA (or whatever the current boogie-man is here on HN), you'll never make any progress.

This type of technology could also be used by handicapped people to regain control of limbs in the distant future.

It's not going to be some insane mind control device. It would be hundreds of years before we could even consider doing something like that, if it even ends up being possible.

Re: What Cockroaches with Backpacks Can Do

#15

Post by orthecreedence » Tue, Mar 17, 2015, 5:32 PM UTC

jff wrote: post #11

orthecreedence wrote: post #9

Why stop at roaches? We could do this to dogs or small children! There's sometimes a tightrope between science and ethics, and this is just plain unethical. I'll start with the argument just about everyone can relate to. We all know this isn't going to actually help people in collapsed buildings or find lost wedding rings. It's going to be used by government spy agencies and military goons to control people in one wa…

> Third, for those who don't give a shit about anybody but humans, how long until this is used in humans? I hear people are eating chickens and even cattle! How long until this is done to humans?!?!

Why eat people when we have chicken already? Good question.

Why control people as automatons when we already have cockroaches? Because of the reasons I listed above.

Re: What Cockroaches with Backpacks Can Do

#16

Post by scrollaway » Tue, Mar 17, 2015, 5:48 PM UTC

orthecreedence wrote: post #15

jff wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Third, for those who don't give a shit about anybody but humans, how long until this is used in humans? I hear people are eating chickens and even cattle! How long until this is done to humans?!?!

Why eat people when we have chicken already? Good question. Why control people as automatons when we already have cockroaches? Because of the reasons I listed above.

> Why eat people when we have chicken already? Good question.

Why eat cattle, horses, fish and fruit when we have chicken already? Your original argument is nothing but a slippery slope fallacy.

Re: What Cockroaches with Backpacks Can Do

#17

Post by _abattoir » Tue, Mar 17, 2015, 5:55 PM UTC

orthecreedence wrote: post #9

Why stop at roaches? We could do this to dogs or small children! There's sometimes a tightrope between science and ethics, and this is just plain unethical. I'll start with the argument just about everyone can relate to. We all know this isn't going to actually help people in collapsed buildings or find lost wedding rings. It's going to be used by government spy agencies and military goons to control people in one wa…

What agenda are you trying to push by constructing this elaborate strawman? Will you also try to convince me that we should execute Galileo for his heretic proposal that the Earth revolves around the Sun?

Seriously. Harmlessly manipulating cockroaches in a science experiment equates to "trading our humanity"? Give me a break. You are complicit in 100x as much "unethical" treatment of animals on a daily basis. The vast majority of products you buy, eat, use, and rely on have probably been tested on animals much more complex than cockroaches. If this study bothers you as much as you say it does, I challenge you to go without any and all consumer products made with at least as much unethical research. Of course, you'll have to do some research yourself to even find out which products and services you need to abandon. Good luck.

The military argument isn't half bad, so I'm sorry to see it go to waste in the alarmist wasteland of your rhetoric, but if this study's been published, then you almost know for certain the men upstairs have had tech like this for decades. Any panic you stir now would be wasted.

Re: What Cockroaches with Backpacks Can Do

#18

Post by sliverstorm » Tue, Mar 17, 2015, 6:04 PM UTC

acadien wrote: post #4

cowardlydragon wrote: post #3

Yeah, to go into collapse earthquake buildings. Right.

It cracks me up how that is the go to 'application' for all robots, drones and swarm-bots. It is used so often it has become a cliche.

It was extremely apropos for a little while after Fukushima, especially because the bots that were sent into the reactors were insufficient.

Re: What Cockroaches with Backpacks Can Do

#19

Post by r00fus » Tue, Mar 17, 2015, 6:12 PM UTC

orthecreedence wrote: post #9

Why stop at roaches? We could do this to dogs or small children! There's sometimes a tightrope between science and ethics, and this is just plain unethical. I'll start with the argument just about everyone can relate to. We all know this isn't going to actually help people in collapsed buildings or find lost wedding rings. It's going to be used by government spy agencies and military goons to control people in one wa…

I just love this quote:

'Asked if it hurts the roach, he says, "I don't think so. I haven't heard any complaints from them." '

I'm sure he's part joking, but some part of me is pretty concerned by the lack of empathy in that statement.

Re: What Cockroaches with Backpacks Can Do

#20

Post by trhway » Tue, Mar 17, 2015, 6:20 PM UTC

>What Cockroaches with Backpacks Can Do

well, they can slowly introduce people to the acceptance of the idea of physical abuse and torture of another live being. With meat plants being hidden from public view and with nicely packaged meat in the stores not causing any association with horrors of how that meat was produced, the human species may start to lose the taste for abuse and torture.