Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: How much to put in a resignation letter?

news.ycombinator.com

61–70 of 72 posts

Re: Ask HN: How much to put in a resignation letter?

#61
post #11

Not sure if this is relevant in your situation, but you say this "obviously had a negative affect on morale". Sometimes tough decisions must be made, so before resigning (possibly out of frustration/disappointment) get the facts and the actual reason - and base your decision on that instead. (of course, if senior management actually didn't inform about the reason - that might be reason itself to leave anyway...)

Lack of transparency is IMO an even bigger problem than lack of acknowledgement.

It could be argued that there would have been other ways to acknowledge the success in sales than handing out money (though depending on how this has been handled before, that could still have come across as trying to be "cheap" and have the opposite effect).

But if it's not possible to determine whether the increase in sale had any effect on the overall finances of the company or whether the company was all-in-all doing better or worse, that's a huge problem IMO.

I've seen business owners try to shield the actual finances of their company from their employees to siphon more money out of it far too often to see financial intransparency as anything other than a huge warning sign.

Note I'm not talking about the exact numbers. But if the company is doing badly when every metric accessible to the employees indicates otherwise, something is definitely amiss.

Re: Ask HN: How much to put in a resignation letter?

#62
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it even mean for them to reject a notice? Were they going to insist on paying you even after you stopped showing up, otherwise?

They did him a favor, and helped him not look like an ass in his file. He'll exist as data for the life of the company, it may as well be neutral data.

Good point. We hear "HR's there for the company's sake, not yours" repeated so often (with good cause), that it's easy to forget that individual actors can still act with above average altruism.

Re: Ask HN: How much to put in a resignation letter?

#63
It depends.

The advice you're getting, to say basically nothing, is sound under all circumstances. However...

If you don't need to work again { at this company, in your industry, in your city, at all }, you should feel free to say whatever you want. That freedom takes years or decades of hard work to earn, and once earned should be used! Just how willing you should be to burn bridges depends on your personal situation and the nature of your industry and profession; if these are not people you would ever work with or for again anyway, and you wouldn't want a job with someone else in the same city or industry who respects their opinion, then the advice to say nothing for your own sake does not apply.

All that said, what are you trying to accomplish? If you've decided to resign and that decision is final, you're not going to accrue any benefit yourself. If you're looking for a counteroffer, forget it; you likely won't get one, and you'll be a marked man if you do. If your motives are altruistic (either for the benefit of the shareholders or your peers), then you must be hopelessly naive. These people are corporate managers, and so are their superiors; they've been carefully selected for sociopathy, greed, and incompetence by a mature and very stable set of processes. They know morale is in the tank and they don't care. The company is probably in trouble owing to mismanagement and they're probably hoping a few people will leave on their own so they can save themselves not only the cost of pay rises but also of severance. Telling them what they already know will, at best, give them fodder for the jokes they'll tell at your expense in the executive washroom. If your goal is simply to go out in style, don't bother with the letter; no one will read it anyway. Instead, write a public article (carefully avoiding the use of confidential information!) or invite all your peers out to a giant party at which you roast management ruthlessly. The leadership principle is to criticize in private and praise in public, but the opposite applies when dealing with corporate management: anything negative you want to say has to be said in public. Private criticism of corporate managers only gives them an opportunity to get ahead of you, whether by having Security remove you from the premises immediately, by slandering you among your peers, or by suing you. Why? Because when you tell them something you're not telling everyone, you give them information, and they will always use that information to their advantage and your injury. Unfortunately, if you have something negative to say about your employer, the only effective place to do so is in the press.

So while I disagree that one should never provide one's reasons out of self-preservation, I also don't see much point in using the letter of resignation as the means of doing so. Whatever your goals, there are better ways to achieve them.

Re: Ask HN: How much to put in a resignation letter?

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't give your company anything more than this, they don't deserve any more and anything else you volunteer can ONLY hurt you (Anything you say can and will be held against you....) also you risk burning bridges. While you may never want to work for the company ever again you might want them as a reference down the line. I tried telling the truth in my first exit interview and all it did was burn bridges and make pe…

>Don't give your company anything more than this, they don't deserve any more and anything else you volunteer can ONLY hurt you I'd have to disagree. Don't say anything negative. Don't talk about why you are leaving. But you can say some positive things. How you had a great time working with $team. How you hope that $project will be a success. How you will miss $company_gathering.

I can agree with that, I really meant negative things only as the OP mentioned his discontent with working there but yes, always good to score a few more points on your way out even if you don't think you will need them.

Re: Ask HN: How much to put in a resignation letter?

#65
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't give your company anything more than this, they don't deserve any more and anything else you volunteer can ONLY hurt you (Anything you say can and will be held against you....) also you risk burning bridges. While you may never want to work for the company ever again you might want them as a reference down the line. I tried telling the truth in my first exit interview and all it did was burn bridges and make pe…

"(Another thing, NEVER accept a counter offer)" Over the years, I've heard this advice repeatedly, but with often wildly different reasons. I'm genuinely curious what your rationale for this advice is.

a3n pretty much said everything I was going to. I heard it from my dad originally and his reasoning was that if you aren't happy then a title change/money isn't going to fix that long-term. Also most people, myself included, are bad about letting that shit stew until it bubbles over and in my experience there is nothing that can be done to reverse that. Normally the trust is lost and can't be gained back and even it could your life will be magnitudes of times better to just move on from a toxic environment instead of trying to change the company you are currently at.

The future consequences are also huge, you may no longer be seen as "team player" which can slow or halt your career, better to not take the chance and move on.

Re: Ask HN: How much to put in a resignation letter?

#66

I tried to give notice at AOL once. HR rejected the letter due to some expletives, and asked for a revised version. I then submitted a 1-sentence notice. Lesson learned; don't swear in notices, but also keep it simple. Even if you tried to offer them your honest view of how things were, chances are they'd get filed in a drawer and stuck away. It took a number of people handing notices day-by-day at AOL before HR clic…

What does it even mean for them to reject a notice? Were they going to insist on paying you even after you stopped showing up, otherwise?

True. My notice wasn't accepted until the 2nd version a few days later. Because of that delay, my leaving date moved to the 2nd February, which meant that I received the company's annual bonus payment as I was still on the books in February.

In some ways, you could say that swearing got me my bonus.

Re: Ask HN: How much to put in a resignation letter?

#67

This is the body of a boilerplate template that I've used the last two times I've changed jobs: Please accept this letter as formal notification that I am leaving my position with [company name] on [full date of departure]. After much consideration I have decided to accept another job offer. My new position will enhance my career growth and will expose me to challenges and opportunities that I believe are in my best…

This is all you need to say.

If you are pressed on your reasons in a meeting or otherwise, make it clear that it was a hard choice and that you thought through it very well so that they don't counter the offer.

Keep it professional. It's all upside if you do.

Re: Ask HN: How much to put in a resignation letter?

#68
My advice: Keep your resignation letter very short and sweet. The purpose of a letter of resignation is really just to formalize your decision to leave so there's a document that can be used to manage that process. All it really needs to say is that you've decided to leave, when your last day will be (I strongly recommend giving two weeks' notice), and something like, "I appreciate the great opportunity I had to work here, and I wish you all the best in the future".

I'm writing a career management guide, and one of my chapters ("How to leave a job on the best possible terms") is exactly about this. You may also have an exit interview coming up, and that situation is similar (my chapter covers exit interviews in detail as well).

Here's the summary section from that chapter—maybe there are some things here that could help you make sure you leave on the best possible terms :)

Leave on the best possible terms, even if you feel slighted — It’s always difficult to put on a happy face when things aren’t going well, but this is a time when you can really boost your reputation.

Ask your manager and co-workers what you can help with before you go — Do this and you will make a lasting impression on your co-workers.

Document the projects you’re working on so your successor is prepared — Your successor will have a much easier time absorbing your work, and they’ll thank you for it.

Bundle up relevant documentation, emails, etc., and make sure they’re saved somewhere that others can get to them — Most companies are moving to cloud-based storage, so it may all be out there anyway. Even so, put together a master document that points to everything they’ll need.

Make sure to return all your equipment in good shape, and do it quickly — Most of the time, you are just borrowing company property. You should return it in good shape, just like you would want your own property returned if you lent it out.

Reach out to your closest co-workers to make sure they’re part of your network before you go — Your network is one your most valuable assets for finding future career opportunities.

Reach out to your colleagues to say goodbye and share your contact information — If you’ve done all these things, you’ve left a great impression. Make sure your old co-workers know how to find you if they need someone like you in the future. And be sure to reach out to your closest co-workers to personally say goodbye whenever possible.

Be vague and use positive language in your exit interview — It feels strange to advocate for being vague, but the exit interview is one of the times when it’s necessary. You won’t benefit by baring your soul on your way out, and the company isn’t going to change because of your feedback. Keep it short, sweet, and surface-level.

That's a one-page summary of the chapter, but the chapter itself goes into quite a bit more detail.

You can get the full chapter for free here: http://JoshDoody.com/leave?ref=hn6

Re: Ask HN: How much to put in a resignation letter?

#69

This is the body of a boilerplate template that I've used the last two times I've changed jobs: Please accept this letter as formal notification that I am leaving my position with [company name] on [full date of departure]. After much consideration I have decided to accept another job offer. My new position will enhance my career growth and will expose me to challenges and opportunities that I believe are in my best…

This is perfect and provides the exact amount of detail that you should offer in your exit interview or when pressed in person.

Re: Ask HN: How much to put in a resignation letter?

#70
OP, i'm going to add another comment here to what i said earlier. before you quit, go in and talk to someone in senior management.

ask for a meeting with someone senior, let them knows it's important. when you get the fifteen minutes you asked for, raise you concern. it undermines trust between sales and senior management, it's a big stress, etc. give them a chance to respond. there may be a perfectly sound reason for it - the money may piss you off but it may also mean the business can stay around longer for everyone.

if you don't like what you hear, pull out your short letter of resignation, sign it, and hand it over. don't make a stink, just say, "i'm sorry, i don't think i can do this. i have to resign."

but you gave them a chance, you were heard, and you made an opportunity. they'll connect the dots, but no harsh words should be spoken (no "get bent you jerk!"). don't burn any bridges, but this will be a way to be clear about what happened, and it may create an opportunity, in fact (who knows).

i hope that helps.

Post reply on HN