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An Economic Model of the Rise in Premarital Sex and Its De-Stigmatization [pdf]

jeremygreenwood.net

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Re: An Economic Model of the Rise in Premarital Sex and Its De-Stigmatization [pdf]

#31

Post by Natsu »

oh_sigh wrote: post #8
GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting Greek letters are not suitable for human comprehension.

Presumably the poster would have about as much as a problem if the author picked the first 14 letters of the English alphabet.also, it is not a given that everyone knows the green alphabet, and it is harder to correlate symbols when you don't have familiarity and know the names of them.

Just for the record, those aren't the first letters the Greek alphabet, nor are they in order, given that alpha is shortly after omega and both are near the center of the list.

I assume they follow some standard of usage in context, but I don't know enough about economics to know what they're normally used to represent.

Re: An Economic Model of the Rise in Premarital Sex and Its De-Stigmatization [pdf]

#32

Post by nl »

seany wrote: post #29
discodave wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you but would quibble on one thing "women are about as financially independent as men"... I would say that women are about 70-80% as financially independent as men, due to the gender pay gap. That gap is even higher if you consider women's under representation in high paying jobs (e.g. tech). However... That's light years better the past when women were essentially considered to be the property of their…

The gender pay gap is a myth. Even major publications refute it http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/04/16/its-time-tha... http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014240527023035327045794837...

That's not what it says at all.

Pulling quotes from the Forbes article:

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, full-time working women earned 81 percent of what full-time working men earned in 2010... The wage gap statistic, however, doesn’t compare two similarly situated co-workers of different sexes, working in the same industry, performing the same work, for the same number of hours a day. It merely reflects the median earnings of all men and women classified as full-time workers.... the average full-time working man spends 8.14 hours a day on the job, compared to 7.75 hours for the full-time working woman

So yes. The wage gap is real. But no, it doesn't necessarily mean that women are paid less for the same work.

In the context of this conversation, about the financial independence of women that 81% figure seems entirely appropriate. It's fair to argue about the reasons for it, but that doesn't seem relevant to the facts relating the financial independence of women vs men.

Re: An Economic Model of the Rise in Premarital Sex and Its De-Stigmatization [pdf]

#33

Post by swsieber »

zxcvvcxz wrote: post #6

Interesting stuff, it's clear from this economics perspective that sexual behavior is tightly coupled to risks and societal influence. As birth control became more available, the risk of premarital sex went down dramatically. I think societal norms are slowly catching up with this, hence why "we" (i.e. Western nations) are more liberal now than say 70 years ago. Here's a related thought experiment: could ever increas…

Unfortunately, it's coupled with short-term risks and probably doesn't accurately reflect the cost of high divorce rates, low birth within wedlock rates, and both parents working rates. While some people do make a single parent work, or both parents working with children work, there is a huge impact of divorce and single parents on their children. Those long term effects are not reflected as well by economic incentives in those situations.

Re: An Economic Model of the Rise in Premarital Sex and Its De-Stigmatization [pdf]

#34

Post by nl »

irishcoffee wrote: post #26
throwawayaway wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the demonstrated decreasing marriage rate does not support the premise that divorce rates are increasing. is your response relevant in some other way?

Divorce rates would tend to decrease if marriage rates decrease. Can't divorce if you aren't married.

Well..

On the first row of result images in the "divorce rate" search you posted there are 5 graphs. 2 of them measure "divorces per 1000 people", and 3 measure "divorces per 1000 marriages".

In the divorce per 1000 marriages case, it would appear to be independent of the marriage rate.

Re: An Economic Model of the Rise in Premarital Sex and Its De-Stigmatization [pdf]

#35

Post by kszx »

dj-wonk wrote: post #3

> There are 14 parameter values to determine, {β, ϕ, ζ, γ, δ, θ, ι, ω, μ, α, τ, λ, η, σ}. Using Greek letters may follow in the economics tradition, but it is a pain for humans who need to match up symbols with concepts.

It makes sense to use Greek letters for exogenous parameters so that we can use Latin letters for endogenously determined variables. The distinction between capitalized and uncapitalized letters is useful for a similar reason.

This makes economic formulae much more readable.

Re: An Economic Model of the Rise in Premarital Sex and Its De-Stigmatization [pdf]

#36

Post by kszx »

michaelchisari wrote: post #4
dj-wonk wrote: post #3

> There are 14 parameter values to determine, {β, ϕ, ζ, γ, δ, θ, ι, ω, μ, α, τ, λ, η, σ}. Using Greek letters may follow in the economics tradition, but it is a pain for humans who need to match up symbols with concepts.

Using easily readable/recognizable variable names is one thing computer programmers got right. It's always frustrating to read mathematic or economic models that use symbols instead. I'm sure there's a good reason for it, but I haven't heard it yet.

Writing out long variable names while working on a mathematical model is like writing the same text with ten times the number of characters. It's neither elegant nor efficient.

Imagine you're playing around with variables and model configurations in complex mathematical terms, but one formula stretches over two pages and you always need to cross out and rewrite whole words.

Re: An Economic Model of the Rise in Premarital Sex and Its De-Stigmatization [pdf]

#37

Post by AnthonyMouse »

nl wrote: post #32
seany wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The gender pay gap is a myth. Even major publications refute it http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/04/16/its-time-tha... http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014240527023035327045794837...

That's not what it says at all. Pulling quotes from the Forbes article: According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, full-time working women earned 81 percent of what full-time working men earned in 2010... The wage gap statistic, however, doesn’t compare two similarly situated co-workers of different sexes, working in the same industry, performing the same work, for the same number of hours a day. It merely reflects…

> In the context of this conversation, about the financial independence of women that 81% figure seems entirely appropriate. It's fair to argue about the reasons for it, but that doesn't seem relevant to the facts relating the financial independence of women vs men.

The reasons for it are extremely relevant. If the pay gap is primarily a result of factors outside of an individual's control (e.g. sex discrimination) then it makes women less independent, but if all a woman has to do to make the same money as a man is to work the same job in the same way then she has the same level of independence, regardless of whether other women choose lower paying jobs.

Re: An Economic Model of the Rise in Premarital Sex and Its De-Stigmatization [pdf]

#38

Post by avn2109 »

RockyMcNuts wrote: post #5
dj-wonk wrote: post #3

> There are 14 parameter values to determine, {β, ϕ, ζ, γ, δ, θ, ι, ω, μ, α, τ, λ, η, σ}. Using Greek letters may follow in the economics tradition, but it is a pain for humans who need to match up symbols with concepts.

There are only two hard problems in computer science: cache invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors. - somebody

* somebody who knew what he was talking about.

Re: An Economic Model of the Rise in Premarital Sex and Its De-Stigmatization [pdf]

#39

Post by nl »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #37
nl wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what it says at all. Pulling quotes from the Forbes article: According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, full-time working women earned 81 percent of what full-time working men earned in 2010... The wage gap statistic, however, doesn’t compare two similarly situated co-workers of different sexes, working in the same industry, performing the same work, for the same number of hours a day. It merely reflects…

> In the context of this conversation, about the financial independence of women that 81% figure seems entirely appropriate. It's fair to argue about the reasons for it, but that doesn't seem relevant to the facts relating the financial independence of women vs men. The reasons for it are extremely relevant. If the pay gap is primarily a result of factors outside of an individual's control (e.g. sex discrimination) t…

Yes, you are probably right, and I take it back. The reasons probably are relevant, but only insofar as exploring how the gender pay gap effects risk.

Do some women take low paying jobs because they are often the primary caregiver for children?

Nevertheless, the pay gap is a fact.

Re: An Economic Model of the Rise in Premarital Sex and Its De-Stigmatization [pdf]

#40

Post by AnthonyMouse »

nl wrote: post #39
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the context of this conversation, about the financial independence of women that 81% figure seems entirely appropriate. It's fair to argue about the reasons for it, but that doesn't seem relevant to the facts relating the financial independence of women vs men. The reasons for it are extremely relevant. If the pay gap is primarily a result of factors outside of an individual's control (e.g. sex discrimination) t…

Yes, you are probably right, and I take it back. The reasons probably are relevant, but only insofar as exploring how the gender pay gap effects risk. Do some women take low paying jobs because they are often the primary caregiver for children? Nevertheless, the pay gap is a fact.

> Do some women take low paying jobs because they are often the primary caregiver for children?

There are undoubtedly many different reasons, which mostly boil down to individuals making decisions to meet societal expectations even though the alternative choice(s) were equally available.

> Nevertheless, the pay gap is a fact.

The trouble is it's a misleading fact because people will assume the primary cause is employer sex discrimination when it isn't, which changes both the consequences of the pay gap and the solutions to reduce it.

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