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The melting of Antarctica

washingtonpost.com

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Re: The melting of Antarctica

#41
For some context (which media rarely provide), Antarctica has about 12.3 million cubic km of ice sheet. The latest measurements I've seen show that between 2011 and 2014, the Antarctic ice sheet lost 125 cubic km per year.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-21692423

http://www.esa.int/spaceinimages/Images/2014/08/Antarctic_ic...

Additionally, people have been noticing a loss of ice since at least 1932: http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/23150667

Re: The melting of Antarctica

#42
post #15

This is a very click-bait-ey title. Maybe it could be changed to something more appropriate for HN? edit: This post used to read as "The melting of Antarctica was already really bad. It just got worse." It has since been changed.

The headline accurately reflects the content of the article, which is a hysterical mishmash of speculation that does a massive disservice to the science. We "may" have learned about something that "could" happen "if" something else turns out to be true.

Antarctic melting is a particularly nasty consequence of anthopogenic climate change. It's a fairly robust first-order prediction of almost any analysis that gets anthropogenic heat balances correct--so unlike almost all other detailed predictions, there is a good chance of it happening--and the consequences, apart from maybe submerging Florida, are unequivocally bad for humans.

But in a debate as emotionally charged as the one over climate change and what to do about it, the last thing we need is the Washington Post ranting on in purely speculative terms.

If a friend told you, "Ten years from now, you may remember 2014 as the year that you first learned that I may have gotten a new job. Meanwhile, 2015 could be the year of the double whammy — when you learned the same about our buddy Joe, which could set in motion a road trip," you would probably look at them funny and say, "Hey, why are you telling me all this stuff that may or may nor or could or could not or might or might not happen as if it's the most important thing in the world? It sounds kind of pretentious and stupid."

Re: The melting of Antarctica

#43
post #41

For some context (which media rarely provide), Antarctica has about 12.3 million cubic km of ice sheet. The latest measurements I've seen show that between 2011 and 2014, the Antarctic ice sheet lost 125 cubic km per year. http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-21692423 http://www.esa.int/spaceinimages/Images/2014/08/Antarctic_ic... Additionally, people have been noticing a loss of ice since at least 1932: http:…

That didn't provide me any context at all. What are those numbers supposed to imply?

Re: The melting of Antarctica

#44
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This, right here, is representative of a problem. Given what the global scientific consensus is (AGW is real, ice is melting, humans are to blame), it is my first impression that your graph and stance is probably crap, but I don't know enough about climate science to make a reasonable argument one way or another (or even interpret the data for that matter). What's a layperson to do? You can learn basic Python in an a…

You can learn basic climatology in an afternoon. The fiddly details scientists make careers out of? Probably not. You can also learn the germ theory of disease in an afternoon. The fiddly biological bits of how antibiotics actually interact with germs? Probably not. For the companies that rake in tons of cash selling fossil fuels, it's been an incredible bit of propaganda to lie about the details and get people to do…

That's always been my other reason to believe that the anti-AGW folks are likely full of it - yeah, there's money in science, but it's a lot less than the money being thrown around by Big Oil.

Re: The melting of Antarctica

#45
post #41

For some context (which media rarely provide), Antarctica has about 12.3 million cubic km of ice sheet. The latest measurements I've seen show that between 2011 and 2014, the Antarctic ice sheet lost 125 cubic km per year. http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-21692423 http://www.esa.int/spaceinimages/Images/2014/08/Antarctic_ic... Additionally, people have been noticing a loss of ice since at least 1932: http:…

First, Antarctica is not "melting," and second it seems to have been happening for a long time.

Additionally, there has been no acceleration in sea level increases:

http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends_station.s...

Browse stations here: http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/mslUSTrendsTable.h...

Re: The melting of Antarctica

#46

Why is Antarctica melting more now than when the ozone hole was a major issue in 90s? That was centered on Antarctica and has been largely fixed I think. Why is this happening now and not then? Or is now because of then? Can anyone provide a clear answer? (edit: wtf? why would anyone downvote this? it's a legit and perfectly fair question.)

Questioning the official line, in any manner, is verboten.

Re: The melting of Antarctica

#47
post #15

This is a very click-bait-ey title. Maybe it could be changed to something more appropriate for HN? edit: This post used to read as "The melting of Antarctica was already really bad. It just got worse." It has since been changed.

> This is a very click-bait-ey title. Maybe it could be changed to something more appropriate for HN? It's the actual story title. Since Bezos bought them, my impression is that the Washington Post has published much more click-bait and strident writing. It's sad to see that from what used to be one of the best news sources in the world. Ten years ago there were three top-notch serious news sources in the U.S. IMHO,…

NYT isn't credible.

Re: The melting of Antarctica

#48

To bring this iceberg around a bit closer to tech culture... California is already being hit by drought, and NASA's climate change models suggest the drought can be expected to get worse as the temperature shift due to AGW increases [ http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/todays... ]. Silicon Valley is, of course, located in California. Does / should this news make people bearish on further deep inves…

I've been thinking about this recently, wondering whether or not it's another reason to move out of California.

There are still a lot of different ways this could play out. We could have another moderately difficult Summer followed by one of the wettest and coldest Winters in recent history, and everything will keep limping along. Or, we could have a season of dry thunderstorms that cause one of the worst wildfire seasons in recent history, complete with thick smoke and the health effects that causes. Or, conflicts over water rights could add fuel to the State of Jefferson movement and turn that into years of political wrangling that drains the energy from a state government no longer being led by Brown. Or, California agriculture could suddenly take huge steps towards better water management, either due to rising water costs or public outcry as municipal water rates skyrocket and rationing is imposed. Or, agriculture might fail to adapt and there will be economic ripple effects felt in food costs and a hit to the state GDP.

Usually, things like this sort of muddle along for years and nobody really notices an acute impact. Sometimes the conditions are right for a disaster and you get something like 2008. The conditions are right now for things to get pretty awful over the next couple of years, but there are still a lot of people involved that can have some impact over how it all turns out. I hope those people get started soon.

If things do take a turn towards the worst, there really is less and less reason for most people to stay in this state. It's a nice state, but there are lots of other really nice places too, and there's been a tech diaspora over the last decade that's bearing fruit in a lot of different places around the country.

Re: The melting of Antarctica

#49
The HN community was (and apparently still is) incredibly hostile to the idea that global warming is a grave threat to humanity. I would think that such a technology-oriented group would be swayed by the now-massive collection of solid data pointing towards this conclusion, but the opposite seems to have happened. Comments attempt to refute even the existence of global warming with irrelevant data of their own or strange nitpicks at the perimeter of an article that seem bent on derailing discussion of the main point (i.e. DH4 at best [1]). If solid evidence is presented, it's usually dismissed with arguments like "this popular news article doesn't even say how exactly they computed , therefor it must be bunk. There could be an error in there somewhere, so I shall assume there is one."

Where does this animus spring from?

[1] http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html

Re: The melting of Antarctica

#50
post #49

The HN community was (and apparently still is) incredibly hostile to the idea that global warming is a grave threat to humanity. I would think that such a technology-oriented group would be swayed by the now-massive collection of solid data pointing towards this conclusion, but the opposite seems to have happened. Comments attempt to refute even the existence of global warming with irrelevant data of their own or str…

Since you aren't making personal attacks, like others on this message board, I'll explain my personal point of view.

I don't deny that humans can influence earth's climate. But the tone of climate change media is beyond hysterics.

For instance, the headline from this article is, in full, "The melting of Antarctica was already really bad. It just got worse."

I posted below links to scientific studies showing that Antarctica has 12.5 million cubic km of ice. 125 cubic km of ice is "melting" each year. On top of that, surveyors noticed reductions in Antarctic ice at least as far back as 1932, far far before "climate change."

My naturally skeptical alarms go off when I realize that headlines like the OP are pure hysterics. At the current rate, Antarctica will melt in 1 million years. Of course, climate changes dramatically on that geologic time scale, so the headline completely destroys the credibility, in my mind, of the central argument -- that Antarctica is "melting."

One look a tide gauges shows that the sea level rise we've been seeing has been going on for about 150 years with no change in the rate of rise.

So, naturally, I'm going to be skeptical of hysterical claims.

As to your point about HN being hostile to climate change, I see it the complete opposite way. Any skeptical arguments, even links to objective scientific facts, are immediately flagkilled and downvoted into hell.

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