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Ask HN: What to learn to become employable, starting from zero?

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Ask HN: What to learn to become employable, starting from zero?

#1
Hi. I intend to learn web developement, but I am not limiting myself to this and so I am open to other options.

While I would love to learn web development, I am afraid it will hinder me to do back-end work, if that is something I end up finding interesting in the future.

My question is basically, what exactly should I learn to become employable in Europe? Preferably England or Switzerland. I have no degree, and I would be creating a portfolio from scratch. Exactly how low are the requirements?

At the moment I intend to learn: Ruby, Ruby on Rails, HTML5 CSS3, Javascript, jQuery. Is that really enough?

Re: Ask HN: What to learn to become employable, starting from zero?

#2
Do you have any programming background?

I don't have a degree either, but having dropped out from a computer engineering university department (where I did pass most of the programming courses) and having maintained my own free software project, gave me a head start when I decided to take the web-dev route as a career.

At that point, I studied php/mysql,js/jquery and html5/css.

These were enough to land a job as a frontend Dev, but the amount of studying that I did afterwards I began working, was orders of magnitude more than before.

So I think your list is very complete for a start but prepare for lots of reading related to the specifics of the jobs you land.

Also, why limit yourself to local gigs? Even if you don't like remote work from your home, you can't ignore that it opens a huge market to you.

Re: Ask HN: What to learn to become employable, starting from zero?

#3
"Back end" is typically used to refer to web development as well, so I'm not sure if I misunderstood you, or you misunderstood the term. Web has "back end" (ruby/rails) and "front end" (html/css/javascript). With a lot of the latest developments there's a lot of overlap in job descriptions.

That is really enough, yes. That's nearly "full stack." You're going to learn some sql while learning rails, and you're going to have to learn enough to deploy somewhere (I recommend heroku to start).

Basically you should teach yourself how to build essentialy any CRUD app (blogs, wikis, basic twitter, news site, hacker news, reddit, etc). When you can do that, you're employable--and probably well above average, honestly.

There will still be TONS of stuff to learn after that, but there won't be any reason for you to not get typical web-development jobs.

Re: Ask HN: What to learn to become employable, starting from zero?

#4
post #3

"Back end" is typically used to refer to web development as well, so I'm not sure if I misunderstood you, or you misunderstood the term. Web has "back end" (ruby/rails) and "front end" (html/css/javascript). With a lot of the latest developments there's a lot of overlap in job descriptions. That is really enough, yes. That's nearly "full stack." You're going to learn some sql while learning rails, and you're going to…

>>Basically you should teach yourself how to build essentialy any CRUD app (blogs, wikis, basic twitter, news site, hacker news, reddit, etc). When you can do that, you're employable--and probably well above average, honestly.

That's a tall order to become barely employable. I'm guessing this is written from a Silicon Valley / SF market perspective?

Re: Ask HN: What to learn to become employable, starting from zero?

#6
post #4
post #3

"Back end" is typically used to refer to web development as well, so I'm not sure if I misunderstood you, or you misunderstood the term. Web has "back end" (ruby/rails) and "front end" (html/css/javascript). With a lot of the latest developments there's a lot of overlap in job descriptions. That is really enough, yes. That's nearly "full stack." You're going to learn some sql while learning rails, and you're going to…

>>Basically you should teach yourself how to build essentialy any CRUD app (blogs, wikis, basic twitter, news site, hacker news, reddit, etc). When you can do that, you're employable--and probably well above average, honestly. That's a tall order to become barely employable. I'm guessing this is written from a Silicon Valley / SF market perspective?

Barely employable? ...Ruby/Rails/Full Stack jobs are so hard to fill it's insane. Starting salaries are in the $130-150k range for mid-level $150k plus for senior and even junior level is a six figure gig. Sure it'll take time to get to a hirable state but it's perfectly doable.

Re: Ask HN: What to learn to become employable, starting from zero?

#7
post #5

Those skills would get you callbacks. The killer in South Florida, at least, is the "3-5 years experience" requirement so often seen in job postings. A nice portfolio could overcome that hopefully.

...having been in several organizations in recent years which are challenged to find enough people, everyone says 3-5 years, but everyone will hire someone with obvious talent, a portfolio of stuff on Github and enthusiasm to learn, at much less than 3-5 years of experience.

Re: Ask HN: What to learn to become employable, starting from zero?

#8
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Basically you should teach yourself how to build essentialy any CRUD app (blogs, wikis, basic twitter, news site, hacker news, reddit, etc). When you can do that, you're employable--and probably well above average, honestly. That's a tall order to become barely employable. I'm guessing this is written from a Silicon Valley / SF market perspective?

Barely employable? ...Ruby/Rails/Full Stack jobs are so hard to fill it's insane. Starting salaries are in the $130-150k range for mid-level $150k plus for senior and even junior level is a six figure gig. Sure it'll take time to get to a hirable state but it's perfectly doable.

I've added the full quote to my post.

Re: Ask HN: What to learn to become employable, starting from zero?

#9
So, a few years back, as a non-technical founder I lost my technical co-founder in back-to-back startups. This was not a great experience, and made me decide to never be dependent on someone else for getting initial product out the door. I spent every evening for several months learning Ruby, Rails and the periphery of front end stuff needed to get projects finished.

I also went to every hackathon I could - not to win, but to meet other programmers, to sharpen my skills, to learn how to finish something under pressure.

After a few months I started getting contract gigs - nothing fancy but paid work. And a funny thing happened. I loved it. Loved programming. Wished I'd been doing it for the last decade in go-to-market roles. Key was I never let up learning. I read everything. Watched every video I could. Tried katas, built any app I could think of to build. Shortly after that I was able to get full-time gigs.

Nowadays I'm in a great company, doing awesome work and loving every minute of it. Your instincts are right. If you're genuinely dedicated to it you can get your head down and learn the stuff you mentioned. Plenty of folks hiring in the UK for ruby/rails. While it's lost its luster for much of the HN crowd, it's only increased in its broader adoption, and the number of jobs hiring for those skills have multiplied far beyond the available talent.

Go for it. Good luck.

Re: Ask HN: What to learn to become employable, starting from zero?

#10
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Barely employable? ...Ruby/Rails/Full Stack jobs are so hard to fill it's insane. Starting salaries are in the $130-150k range for mid-level $150k plus for senior and even junior level is a six figure gig. Sure it'll take time to get to a hirable state but it's perfectly doable.

I've added the full quote to my post.

It's not "barely employable," and that's not what I said it was. Rather, it's a solid entry-level position at most agencies.

Also I don't think it's that tall of an order. These "bootcamps" are (arguably) cranking out graduates that (supposedly) know how to do that.

I taught myself over something like a year of spare time (I was in high school), although this was pre-frameworks. Also pre-really-good-tutorials.

Last, I've never been west of Oklahoma. I don't know what your "perspective" comment is on about.

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