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“Your monthly rent .. shall increase from $2145 to $8900”

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Re: “Your monthly rent .. shall increase from $2145 to $8900”

#401

Post by DonGateley »

BashiBazouk wrote: post #240
freehunter wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the weather, food/beer/wine, and landscape really that much better than Santa Cruz? Is it that much better than Raleigh? Or Austin? Or any other city that isn't San Francisco? Besides the benefits you might get from SF, let's be realistic: the city doesn't want you. It doesn't want any of you. The only benefit you're getting is the people who moved there just like you, and the city doesn't want them, either. If th…

Santa Cruz? Have you been there? It's definitely a love it or hate it kind of place. The food is better in SF. It's something like 78 miles down the coast, so the beer and wine are the same. The landscape is about the same. The big problem is going to be your commute over hwy 17. I did it for years and liked it, but it's not for the faint of heart or the skittish in car. Never been to Raleigh or Austin, but today was…

Yeah, Santa Cruz totally sucks. Don't waste your time.

Re: “Your monthly rent .. shall increase from $2145 to $8900”

#402

Post by [deleted] »

jsprogrammer wrote: post #201
harryh wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the girl across the bar holds eye contact with you for a couple of seconds and then looks down and away she wants you to come talk to her. Not everything is always stated in black and white.

When dealing with real transactions, every thing should be stated in black and white.

[deleted]

Re: “Your monthly rent .. shall increase from $2145 to $8900”

#403

Post by WalterSear »

freehunter wrote: post #252
mwetzler wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of what you are saying rings true, but you may be underestimating just how small San Francisco is and how large the tech entrepreneur population is here. The number of new companies being started here is what makes San Francisco feel special. There is no other city on earth where you can overhear someone's new business idea at the cafe, the bakery, a restaurant, and the subway. And the crazy thing is that no on…

I think it would. Is there something special about SF in particular, or is it just the people? If you moved the people to Chicago or even Detroit, I have a feeling it would be exactly the same. If it's an issue of city size relative to the number of tech workers, look at smaller cities like Knoxville, Grand Rapids, or Madison. These conversations don't happen there because the people holding them don't live there. Sa…

The population doesn't totally hate everyone who works in tech.

I've been here 25+ years, and it's only entitled millenials who 'hate everyone in tech'.

Re: “Your monthly rent .. shall increase from $2145 to $8900”

#404

Post by maratd »

esrauch wrote: post #322
maratd wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use the same argument for any good or service. Tear something away from a person and you can absolutely traumatize them. It can be a teddy bear for a little kid, a car for an adolescent, your laptop, you get the idea. You can't legislate life into some gentle state. It is what it is. You can, however, smooth out the bumps. Unfortunately, rent control does the exact opposite. It creates stupidity like this. Wh…

> Tear something away from a person and you can absolutely traumatize them. It can be a teddy bear for a little kid, a car for an adolescent, your laptop, you get the idea. I don't understand the point: none of those things are being torn away from people due to market forces.

> none of those things are being torn away from people due to market forces.

You can end up owing money without the ability to repay fairly easily due to to market forces.

If you have a judgement against you, in other words a court has determined that you owe somebody money, they can seize your property and auction it off to settle the debt. Cars, laptops, anything worth $$$ is a target.

Life can suck. You can't legislate the "suck" away. You can, however, smooth out the bumps. In the scenario above, bankruptcy is a legal construct to smooth out the bumps.

Unlike bankruptcy, rent control makes the bumps worse. That really sucks.

Re: “Your monthly rent .. shall increase from $2145 to $8900”

#405

Post by rosser »

EpicEng wrote: post #387
dragontamer wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then lets say someone's house due to foreclosure from a variable-rate mortgage. Happened all the time a few years ago, and its the same situation. The interest rates rose, people couldn't afford their mortgage anymore and were forced out.

While there is definitely a lot of blame to be placed on the creditors, don't you hold the homeowners to any standard of responsibility? They signed the mortgage.

So you want to blame people who probably didn't fully understand what they were signing up for (not least because they probably weren't responsibly disclosed to) for having been fleeced by crooks peddling predatory loans?

I'd bet real money that almost every applicant for one of these mortgages was reassured up, down, left, and right by the broker (whose interests were most definitely not aligned with the applicant's) that everything will be fine. "When the variable rate kicks in, you can just refinance. Rates will be lower than ever!"

Re: “Your monthly rent .. shall increase from $2145 to $8900”

#406

Post by thaumasiotes »

jlebar wrote: post #130
Brian-Puccio wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea behind limiting the landlord's profit is that many believe that it is more important for people to be able to afford housing than for others to make larger profits through, literally, rent-seeking. It's not just because, it's a social priority. Kinda like the comment the other day on HN that was something along the lines of "I don't see why we need the gov't regulating water prices, why can't the free market…

> not to mention supply/demand doesn't work for something with fairly inelastic demand lolwut? The free market works pretty OK for gasoline and food (taken as a whole; obviously specific foods are elastic). When was the last time you heard people clamoring for price controls at the grocery store? Even more to the point, the free market works just fine for housing in the vast majority of the US that does not have any…

> When was the last time you heard people clamoring for price controls at the grocery store?

This is, in fact, extremely common, historically and currently. Just within the US in the past several years, look at the demand for price caps on bottled water in the wake of natural disasters.

Re: “Your monthly rent .. shall increase from $2145 to $8900”

#407

Post by vacri »

maratd wrote: post #286
wpietri wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're missing is that housing is not a normal good. Sure, there is a housing marketplace, which can provide some correction. But houses are also homes. People are born in them. People die in them. They love them, they cherish them, they fight for them. There's a lot of truth in the saying, "Home is where the heart is." What you're missing in that scenario is the large number of people who are displaced not just…

You can use the same argument for any good or service. Tear something away from a person and you can absolutely traumatize them. It can be a teddy bear for a little kid, a car for an adolescent, your laptop, you get the idea. You can't legislate life into some gentle state. It is what it is. You can, however, smooth out the bumps. Unfortunately, rent control does the exact opposite. It creates stupidity like this. Wh…

You can't legislate life into some gentle state.

So you don't believe laws against crime?

You can use the same argument for any good or service.

None of the things you mentioned have the universality of a home, which strikes almost everyone, regardless of demographic. Those who aren't adversely affected by not having a home are notable for being extreme outliers. As wpietri said, housing is not a normal good.

Re: “Your monthly rent .. shall increase from $2145 to $8900”

#408

Post by omegaham »

vertex-four wrote: post #165
harryh wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are totally correct that landlords have this option. People who are opposed to rent control argue, quite convincingly, that things like the situation you describe lead to bad outcomes for the community at large. A dwelling sitting unoccupied because an owner doesn't want to subject themselves to rent control laws decreases supply and increases rents for everyone.

If it's sitting unoccupied and the owner has no plans to do anything with it, the owner is being irrational. If the owner does have plans to do something with it, they have to kick the tenant out, meaning that any additional supply as a result of renting out these houses is short-term, thus just pushing the problem back a bit. You'd still have to deal with the problem in the future.

At the extreme end, one thing that they'll do is become a slumlord - have noncompliant housing that isn't registered.

Yes, it's illegal, and the penalties are severe if the person is caught. But it's an option. And if the current owner is sitting there thinking, "Shit, I can't rent this building out and make it worth my while," (property tax, cost of keeping it up to code, etc) he'll sell it to a slumlord who can make a profit out of it.

Re: “Your monthly rent .. shall increase from $2145 to $8900”

#409

Post by [deleted] »

vacri wrote: post #407
maratd wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use the same argument for any good or service. Tear something away from a person and you can absolutely traumatize them. It can be a teddy bear for a little kid, a car for an adolescent, your laptop, you get the idea. You can't legislate life into some gentle state. It is what it is. You can, however, smooth out the bumps. Unfortunately, rent control does the exact opposite. It creates stupidity like this. Wh…

You can't legislate life into some gentle state. So you don't believe laws against crime? You can use the same argument for any good or service. None of the things you mentioned have the universality of a home, which strikes almost everyone, regardless of demographic. Those who aren't adversely affected by not having a home are notable for being extreme outliers. As wpietri said, housing is not a normal good.

[deleted]

Re: “Your monthly rent .. shall increase from $2145 to $8900”

#410

Post by slantedview »

olegious wrote: post #235
freehunter wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the weather, food/beer/wine, and landscape really that much better than Santa Cruz? Is it that much better than Raleigh? Or Austin? Or any other city that isn't San Francisco? Besides the benefits you might get from SF, let's be realistic: the city doesn't want you. It doesn't want any of you. The only benefit you're getting is the people who moved there just like you, and the city doesn't want them, either. If th…

I think the people "that don't want you" are a small, although vocal, minority of San Francisco. Most San Franciscans prefer gentrification and tech workers to slums and everything that entails. The silent majority, is just that- silent. There is construction happening all over the city now, I think people are starting to "get it"- if you want lower rents, you have to build more hosing. I've been in SF since I was 9…

I think what he means is the cost and burden of daily life in SF demonstrates a place that doesn't want you - not so much that the long-time residents don't want you (though that's true in some cases).
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