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Science Fairs Aren't So Fair

theatlantic.com

1–10 of 71 posts

Re: Science Fairs Aren't So Fair

#2
I feel like it's impossible for many people to acknowledge the fact that the world isn't fair.

To me, that's the basic assumption that you have to start with. Afterwords, you're free to figure out how to make things more fair, but if you don't start out understanding that things will always be messed up, you're left with a senseless rant.

From what I got through it seems like the author was upset that some parents can spend more time with their kids and that teachers were setting a high standard, and that wealth in families can function as a privilege for children. Those seem like pretty fundamental issues to me. The science fair is maybe like a microcosm of life that way, but I didn't get what was a problem unique to it.

Re: Science Fairs Aren't So Fair

#3
I've been disgusted for years by the parade of "winners" of the major science fairs, most of whom have privileged access to research labs, wealth, or both. Because, protip: no high school student can do graduate-level scientific research. When you see that, it means that the student had special access to a lab that was already doing the work.

And yet, year after year, these folks are given lucrative scholarships and trotted out by the media as examples of the best-and-brightest scientific talent. There's no way to reform it -- there's an incentive to game the system, so parents will find a way to a game it. It's just one more example of the perpetuation of wealth across generations.

Re: Science Fairs Aren't So Fair

#4

I feel like it's impossible for many people to acknowledge the fact that the world isn't fair. To me, that's the basic assumption that you have to start with. Afterwords, you're free to figure out how to make things more fair, but if you don't start out understanding that things will always be messed up, you're left with a senseless rant. From what I got through it seems like the author was upset that some parents ca…

Why bother with proxies and not just do bank accounts fair?

The whole idea of making children compete is questionable, and once you bring money in it completely loses reason to exist.

Re: Science Fairs Aren't So Fair

#6
Wow a lot of parental angst there. Lets take a paragraph out of that which summarizes this:

"Last year my son, who was in third grade at the time, came home with a sheet of paper from his school that listed three categories for appropriate projects: developing a hypothesis and conducting an experiment to test that theory, inventing something new, or researching 'something specific.' The guidelines listed 'whales' as an example of something specific. Given that my son was 8 years old, the idea that he could, on his own, do any single one of these things seemed ludicrous."

Ok, so here we have a parent which completely doubts what their kid can do. In my experience this is a pretty bad place for a parent to be, as the kids seem to always be more capable than parents expectation.

But the author really drives it home here:

"Even the easiest of these items—researching a topic—is nearly impossible for a child who hasn’t yet mastered the ability to browse the Internet. (As a parent and the founder of a tech company, I’ve observed that in order to browse the Internet one needs to know how to scan the screen, differentiate between actual content and ads, and evaluate the trustworthiness of a resource—elements that are far out of reach of most 8-year-olds.)"

Get that? Browse the Internet? Here is a question, how hard is it to pick up the volume of the Encyclopedia Britannica with the big "W" on the spine and turn to the page on "Whales" ? Not that hard. I'm sure the problem with that is that an 8 year old cannot be expected to drive themselves to the library. (only half joking).

But in context it says volumes about the parent and very little about the child. Even the poorest child can research things like the kinds of insects that live in their neighborhood. The sad part about this article is not that Science Fairs are not fair, its that parents don't know what science is and so cannot help there children develop a sense of wonder and discovery.

And what is truly heartbreaking for me is that the author's child has no hope of learning what science is from this person, and if they don't get it in school, well they will grow up believing anything they read on the Internet as truth. That makes for a very sad story indeed.

Re: Science Fairs Aren't So Fair

#7

I feel like it's impossible for many people to acknowledge the fact that the world isn't fair. To me, that's the basic assumption that you have to start with. Afterwords, you're free to figure out how to make things more fair, but if you don't start out understanding that things will always be messed up, you're left with a senseless rant. From what I got through it seems like the author was upset that some parents ca…

I felt like the author not only decried projects where the kids have access to parental help, but projects where the kids have access to good facilities. And motivation. I'm not sure what's left to measure if we attempted to remove support, facilities, and motivation.

The author seems to support the idea that schools should provide more support and facilities. That sounds good, but the outcome of some schools doing this (the infamous ones near New York, apparently) seems to be the focus of criticism. I'm left not understanding the thrust of the article.

Re: Science Fairs Aren't So Fair

#8
I did a lot of science fairs in high school. I was pretty good at it, too; I'm currently paying for college with the help of some military research scholarships I won at an international science fair.

Here's my perspective on the whole thing. Take it as you will.

At the regional science fairs (where everyone starts out), there are a lot of people there who are only doing it because they have to. Usually, their high school requires it. A lot of these projects are shit, and a lot of them also clearly stole the idea or got help from their parents. All of these get eliminated at the regional level.

Then, we have the state level fairs.

When it comes to engineering projects (mechanical, electrical, or computer), almost 100% of the projects are actually done by the students themselves. It's very easy for engineering judges to tell when someone's bullshitting or didn't actually put in the work, so almost none of the bullshitters make it to the state level. Most of these people don't have any immediate family members who could help them, even if they wanted help.

When it comes to biological sciences (medicine especially) the situation is much different. Almost everyone in this category knows their shit, but it's a lot harder to say if they actually did the work themselves or not. A lot of the projects absolutely require that the students work in industrial lab environments. It's impossible for a student doing MRSA research to work in a lab below BSL-2, for example. A lot of these students get lab access through their parents (who may be doctors or researchers or something), so it's very likely they are working alongside their parent, and it's possible that they are working with the help of their parent. A huge portion of students doing this kind of research do have an immediate family member who can (and, with some likelihood, does) help them.

Because it's much harder for judges to sniff out people who didn't do original work in the biological sciences category, you get a lot more bullshitters in this category making it all the way to the top science fairs. They're still usually experts in whatever they're researching, but they didn't necessarily put in the thought or effort themselves.

When I was at Intel's international fair, the guy who won the top prize claimed to do some sort of cancer-detection research. It was pretty impressive stuff, but after the science fair a whole bunch of incriminating stuff came out. IIRC, there was some situation where his parent had a position of power at some major research university, and he essentially plagiarized the research of some researcher there with minor changes, but it was soon enough after the actual research that no one caught it.

I can't speak as much to the other categories (sociology, mathematics, etc.). I didn't have a lot of experience with those.

Re: Science Fairs Aren't So Fair

#9
This quote shows something really bad, although it wasn't explicitly discussed:

"But at the three fairs I’ve attended over the last several years, the unknown rarely makes an appearance. At my son's fair last year, at least a handful of students did the popular "experiment" in which the "scientist" waters plants with three different liquids—one of which is typically soda or detergent—to determine which is best for plant growth.

"Were you surprised that water made the plant grow?" I asked one child after she presented her experiment.

"No," she said."

Aka "Science = boring and predictable and uncreative" Which is pretty much the opposite of reality, although a fairly accurate example of K12 science education...

Try harder kids? I put 10 seconds into it and got the idea of pond water, fresh chlorinated tap water, and collected rain water?

Then again, some decades ago I successfully won the local grade school with what boils down to a grid of detergents/soaps vs sources of dirt. (edited to highlite that dumb project ideas are not a recent invention of 2015, I mean think about it, a hypothesis that clothes detergent cleans dirt from cloth the best is lame, although what cleans kitchen grease was a good question, I think hand soap won?)

There is an interesting side dish of some fairs in some decades have allowed research projects or "inventions", which is pretty lame. Do science, do a book report, or do an art project, but don't confuse yourself into thinking the three activities are indistinguishable.

Re: Science Fairs Aren't So Fair

#10
post #3

I've been disgusted for years by the parade of "winners" of the major science fairs, most of whom have privileged access to research labs, wealth, or both. Because, protip: no high school student can do graduate-level scientific research. When you see that, it means that the student had special access to a lab that was already doing the work. And yet, year after year, these folks are given lucrative scholarships and…

> no high school student can do graduate-level scientific research.

That's not true. I've seen better (original) science fair work than some PhD theses. It's just 1/1000 students that can pull it off.

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