Ask HN: The rising “Hackathon Hackers” culture • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: The rising “Hackathon Hackers” culture

#121

Post by woah » Sun, Mar 15, 2015, 3:43 PM UTC

carucez wrote: post #80

Welcome to the future of CS. As technical fields cross into the phase of commonly understood knowledge, the ability to exploit imbalances rises. Opportunity exists everywhere, but we as insiders with our vast technical knowledge are distracted by our awe of capability. We fail to exploit the low hanging fruit that a capitalist might immediately sense. We would rather pursue deeper knowledge within our domain to be ma…

Why is this a bad thing? Business people are good at selling things and making money. This is what they do. If you are envious of their skills, learn how to do it yourself. Get a low level sales job on commission and see what it's like. I doubt it is as easy as you might think.

Re: Ask HN: The rising “Hackathon Hackers” culture

#122

Post by jmcohen » Sun, Mar 15, 2015, 3:55 PM UTC

GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #94

jmcohen wrote: post #44

Penn's hackathon is by application only. I think this is pretty silly. Here's a quote from a Medium post by one of the event organizers announcing this year's low acceptance rate of 30% [1]: The people that got in had almost all either won major hackathons before or worked on multiple projects that each blew our socks off in a spectacular fashion. I'm just trying to imagine these kids at Penn sitting around a table d…

The alternatives to a juried pool are (a) first come, first serve and (b) random selection, which would you have preferred in this case? ("Admitting everyone" is simply not possible, there's neither the space nor the support staff)

Both first-come-first-serve and random selection are better ways to admit people to a hackathon than "let's play college admissions committee."

HackMIT came up with a nice hybrid solution this year [1]. Most spots were filled by lottery, but a few were reserved for the first people to solve a puzzle. This left a place for merit --- but, like, actual merit, which is not well-assessed by a 19-year-old college student scanning resumes for "placements at major hackathons."

[1] https://medium.com/hackmit-2014/joining-the-fancycat-club-ha...

Re: Ask HN: The rising “Hackathon Hackers” culture

#123

Post by fsk » Sun, Mar 15, 2015, 3:55 PM UTC

arfliw wrote: post #101

fsk wrote: post #4

>Students who believe to be 1000x SE because they can stick two APIs together and use bootstrap end-up to be very condescending older engineers. Yeah, I've noticed that younger programmers started talking down to me like my experience is worthless. Then they ask me to debug their code for them. The frustrating part is that, when I interview, my experience in now-obsolete languages has a value of $0. My skill for unde…

If they had to choose between you and somebody with no programming experience, who do you think they would hire? If they hired you both, do you think you'd get the same salary? Answers are obv: (1) you (2) no - so your skills are not valued at $0.

I've had several recruiters say they'd rather hire a recent college grad than me, even for the same salary, because I didn't have experience in their specific technologies and it'd be easier for the recent grad to learn.

So I'm less attractive than a recent grad with no experience, which means my experience has negative value.

Re: Ask HN: The rising “Hackathon Hackers” culture

#124

Post by carapace » Sun, Mar 15, 2015, 3:57 PM UTC

eatonphil wrote: post #111

lazyseq wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me also add some more specifics for your case: 1. Program whatever you want. Don't go for popularity. If you don't do what you want, then you won't finish. 2. Corollary to the first item, finish what you start. 3. Anyone who judges on stars as an idiot. I will use the sweeping brush. In the same way it's hard to make a hugely successful startup, being good and being popular are two different things. Without namin…

There is so much wrong with this post. I'll follow your ordering. 1. Program WHATEVER you want. We can't make assumptions about what drives you. If popularity is your biggest drive, then use it. Don't ignore what drives you because you think one way is more honorable than the next. Do what you need to do. No one cares why you do something if you do a good job. 2. Fine. 3. Anyone who judges on stars is normal. They ma…

I don't think you correct the parent so much as come at the question from a different viewpoint and context.

If you are trying to avoid B.S. as a newbie professional programmer then the parent advice is, in my opinion, very apt (and "narrow-minded" only to a degree that feels well-focused.)

On the other hand, if you are a beginner and hoping to really learn the art, as well as the trade, then your comments eatonphil are most apt as well.

For example, knowing what I know now, I would never try to design and implement my own language (except for fun), but I know what I know now in part because I've done so in the past. ;-)

Re: Ask HN: The rising “Hackathon Hackers” culture

#125

Post by fsk » Sun, Mar 15, 2015, 3:58 PM UTC

DrJokepu wrote: post #92

fsk wrote: post #4

>Students who believe to be 1000x SE because they can stick two APIs together and use bootstrap end-up to be very condescending older engineers. Yeah, I've noticed that younger programmers started talking down to me like my experience is worthless. Then they ask me to debug their code for them. The frustrating part is that, when I interview, my experience in now-obsolete languages has a value of $0. My skill for unde…

I don't know about your specific case but it's typically not the presence old technologies that devalue a resume; it's their presence AND the lack of new technologies that does that, because it indicates that the candidate doesn't think it's important to keep himself up to date regarding the latest developments in his profession, which is a huge red flag. Just this week we've interviewed a lady for a development posi…

The problem is that there's 100 new things, and it's hard to tell what's going to last and what's just a fad.

Also, once you have a job using X, there isn't much opportunity to get work experience in Y.

I've also have several recruiters say "Learning stuff on your own doesn't count. You need actual work experience in Y for employers to value it." That's hard when you have a job where they only use (somewhat-obsolete) X.

Re: Ask HN: The rising “Hackathon Hackers” culture

#126

Post by gailees » Sun, Mar 15, 2015, 4:22 PM UTC

Hackathon Hackers is an eclectic group of over 13,000 individuals -- I started it 8 months ago to create an inclusive, welcoming community for up-and-coming hackers.

People come from tons of different backgrounds and this community provides a space where radical ideas are welcome.

You'll definitely find some people with interesting, sometimes scary, views but that by no means defines the entire group of people. "Hackathon Hackers" has over 100 active subgroups that explore a wide range of topics and perspectives.

That said, by creating this space, the issues we face in tech, and in the world at large, are more visible in HH than any other community I've ever been a part of.

Improving the culture will be a never-ending pursuit and will take tens of thousands of young hackers banding together to do so. The issues you pointed out are very real.

It won't happen in a day, but we've come so far in just a few short months and this is still just the start.

Re: Ask HN: The rising “Hackathon Hackers” culture

#127

Post by ryanthejuggler » Sun, Mar 15, 2015, 4:43 PM UTC

kevinwang wrote: post #115

yoklov wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, In the games industry it's fairly common practice to totally ignore anything a potential programmer made in a game jam (unless they carried it on afterwards). Feels somewhat equivalent, even though it's probably for different reasons.

Why is it that it's common practice to ignore anything made in a game jam?

Considering "he lacked the attention span" in GolfyMcG's comment, it shows the dev can create, but doesn't demonstrate any long-term follow-through or team dynamics.

Re: Ask HN: The rising “Hackathon Hackers” culture

#128

Post by mkal_tsr » Sun, Mar 15, 2015, 4:47 PM UTC

empressplay wrote: post #89

I gave up on "hackathons" when I went to three in a row whose winners never wrote a single line of code during the actual event, and instead spent the whole weekend working on their pitches. I protested (because I tend to do that) but my concerns fell on deaf ears. The organisers didn't see anything wrong with spending the weekend building a pitch rather than a product. It was all about whatever it took to impress th…

I remember when hackathons were all about "here's some buggy code I wrote that does random/obscure feature/task X because look at how cool that is" and not "look at this pitch/product I'm trying to make to earn prize Y" Shame those days seem to be fading into obscurity.

Re: Ask HN: The rising “Hackathon Hackers” culture

#129

Post by neonbat » Sun, Mar 15, 2015, 4:51 PM UTC

Yes there is a bit of a culture problem at hackathons and in university "tech" groups especially among student "hackers." They tend to be fixated on prestige and validation from others (versus actually making something good or unique). These are not very hacker-ly aspirations. Here's the good news though: you can set the attitude for your the people you work with. You get to pick who you work with. You do not have to go to hackathons. My recommendation is just to work with lots of different people on small software projects like you would at a hackathon. You will find some you don't like working with and others that you want to work with everyday. Eventually you'll find a stable group of coding people. It might take a while. I recommend going to your university tech group or picking in class groups sudo-randomly; if there's any other disgruntled people around you can initially bond over that and then form a cool collaboration. Most importantly remember that a lot of people just have weak wills. They are not fundamentally bad, they just cannot resist the urge for validation and prestige whorin', be nice to them, someday they may move past this.

Note: "Prestige whorin'" is the act of undertaking lots of accomplishable projects that don't challenge you and improve your skills. It's the act of actively trying to get more awards when you already have like 20-something awards. It's the act of over marketing projects you've worked on as fully baked products. It is a destructive attitude where real value and skills are eschewed for looking good on paper. It has nothing to do with actual whores.

Re: Ask HN: The rising “Hackathon Hackers” culture

#130

Post by iheartramen » Sun, Mar 15, 2015, 4:54 PM UTC

GolfyMcG wrote: post #20

We hired a dev that's very much like you described. We "knew" he was smart because he did well in some Hackathons. Had built some cool projects on his flashy portfolio. Went to the same university we want to, which is a top university in the world. Had good grades at said University. etc. He had all the markings of being a fantastic intern for us. About half way through his internship we had to fire him. He lacked th…

This is so true. Steadily working on a long-term project is so much more valuable than writing shitty code that you won't look at again for 24 hours every few weekends.