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Ask HN: The rising “Hackathon Hackers” culture

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Re: Ask HN: The rising “Hackathon Hackers” culture

#111
post #85
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey there, one of the young guys here, trying to weasel my way into a job, I have a few questions for you If you don't mind. You said this: More likely I am not impressed because your code is terrible and I am shocked that it took you so many weeks and commits to do what you would be expected to finish in 1 day at our office. I have a github account, and I use it to host a few of my projects. Right now I'm working on…

Let me also add some more specifics for your case: 1. Program whatever you want. Don't go for popularity. If you don't do what you want, then you won't finish. 2. Corollary to the first item, finish what you start. 3. Anyone who judges on stars as an idiot. I will use the sweeping brush. In the same way it's hard to make a hugely successful startup, being good and being popular are two different things. Without namin…

There is so much wrong with this post. I'll follow your ordering.

1. Program WHATEVER you want. We can't make assumptions about what drives you. If popularity is your biggest drive, then use it. Don't ignore what drives you because you think one way is more honorable than the next. Do what you need to do. No one cares why you do something if you do a good job.

2. Fine.

3. Anyone who judges on stars is normal. They may also be an idiot. But in most cases, stars WILL impress your prospective employers. This may not be a GOOD thing, but it is true. It is just how humans think. Go with the tide not against it, but certainly, the popularity ratings are not all important. Use them to help you advertise yourself but don't rely on them solely.

4. If you are a beginner, there is NOTHING you have out there a prospective employer would not benefit from seeing. Most people I see starting out have so little. It doesn't matter if the project is unfinished. Most projects ARE unfinished. If you just came out of school your prospective employer should be understanding of your priorities.

5. Fine.

Now onto the next list, but a general note first. WRITE WHATEVER YOU WANT. Our entire economy is based around survival of the fittest (for the most part). Create the next best * (language, OS, api, db, etc) or don't, you still learned a hell of a lot (I hope). Jumping into things with which you are unfamiliar is AWESOME. You WILL be rewarded.

Anyway, the next list:

1. As with everything else, if you want to do this, do it. You will learn about lexing, parsing (because God knows most people can't tell the two apart), ASTs, the difference between a compiler and an interpreter. At the very least you will be the more intelligent voice at Your Generic Job when talking about Python's awkward scoping.

2. Write WHATEVER you want. Now, truthfully, you probably won't get far. But if you learn what a kernel is, what a boot sector is, etc, you will be far ahead of most other programmers out there. Will this be helpful in your career? Probably not. But WHO cares! You'll learn some good C skills at least.

3. Write WHATEVER you want! Honestly a simple database is probably the simplest of the three mentioned topics (language, OS). New databases are always being written.

Ultimately, the point is always that although you probably won't beat the existing implementations, you WILL learn a lot about how they work. There is nothing more helpful (IMHO) when learning a new topic/api/etc than writing it from scratch. Move on when you understand the concepts. Certainly, don't use your project in production probably, but it doesn't mean you didn't learn anything!

4. Fine.

5. Fine.

Point is, these lists come off as incredibly narrow-minded. A beginner should do what interests them. While their projects probably won't take off, these are the most important things to show to employers down the road. This will demonstrate your interest in CS, your ability to take on a challenging project, and for crying out loud it gives you code samples. Email me if you have questions.

/rant

Re: Ask HN: The rising “Hackathon Hackers” culture

#112
To put the modern hackathon ethos into perspective, simply compare it to the demoscene.

Suddenly, the title of "hacker" that so many pride themselves on starts to feel a bit generous. Especially in context of simple CRUD apps and API mashups.

Re: Ask HN: The rising “Hackathon Hackers” culture

#113
post #17

This is simply this generation's "1337 haxx0rz". Back when I was in school, Matrix was popular, and the term "hacker" had very different connotations. People would call themselves "cyberpunk", "1337", they would install linux because it was a status symbol in that culture and it was trendy to hate on microsoft. Overall, the "haxx0rz"/skiddies/whatever were just as insufferable as today's "genius 10x entrepreneur 23-y…

well you've gotta admit at least that Microsoft did in fact suck :)

For me.. cyberpunk was cool because of Neil Stephenson, William Gibson, and uhh ShadowRun.. Somehow this meshed with the rave scene and I guess also 'industrial' music which was slowly becoming cool.. but for a while.. it wasn't quite there yet and being a hacker had negative coolness connotations kind of like being into MTG or D&D.

I never thought about the release of the movie "the Matrix" as being the pivot moment after which the consensus view of hackerdom coolness shifted (at least in highschools across america), but you're probably right.

Re: Ask HN: The rising “Hackathon Hackers” culture

#114
I have been to few hacks to India, I found similar drama held by judges here. Well, I don't go for winning a price, nowadays, hackathan is mainly conducted for hireathon, you need to work on specific domain that company is experienced in.

You wrote next best google algorithm for page ranking, accurate search results, you will be probably get ignored. You will be asked what is the business value? Why people should buy from you. The funny thing is, hackathan is just a coding stuffs, not a VC pitch club.

After few hackathans, I decided to not to compete on the crowd on a similar idea, then I pick my own idea or some algorithm to try, get to the extend of it make it work.

Re: Ask HN: The rising “Hackathon Hackers” culture

#115
post #39

We hired a dev that's very much like you described. We "knew" he was smart because he did well in some Hackathons. Had built some cool projects on his flashy portfolio. Went to the same university we want to, which is a top university in the world. Had good grades at said University. etc. He had all the markings of being a fantastic intern for us. About half way through his internship we had to fire him. He lacked th…

FWIW, In the games industry it's fairly common practice to totally ignore anything a potential programmer made in a game jam (unless they carried it on afterwards). Feels somewhat equivalent, even though it's probably for different reasons.

Why is it that it's common practice to ignore anything made in a game jam?

Re: Ask HN: The rising “Hackathon Hackers” culture

#116
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a member of the team that "won" that hackathon, I agree. Interestingly, one of my least-favorite parts about "doing well" at hackathons like these is that I don't get the opportunity to go around to other tables and see what everyone has else made, and talk with them about it. Sometimes, really cool projects and people go under-noticed (I've been there as well).

But would you go to a hackathon with no prizes?

Uhm, to create something? For challenge? For fun? That's what hackatons and gamejams are for, aren't they?

But I have to admit that sometimes there are pretty nice prices - like on the last gamejam I attended there was an organized trip to bigger gamejam for the winners (except of small stuff like T-shirts). There were no judges, all attendees voted on their favorites. That's in my opinion the true hackaton/gamejam spirit.

Re: Ask HN: The rising “Hackathon Hackers” culture

#117
post #48

There is nothing inherently wrong with hackathons. Software development is one of few disciplines in which one can cook-up something valuable quickly in few hours. Imagine medical students trying out this in their discipline :) However, there is somehow perception that creating via hacking == great engineering. Hacking is a part of engineering. Engineering requires discipline, attention to detail, due diligence and l…

I think a great comparison would be between the British tv show "Scrapheap Challenge", and "real world" engineering.

In the show, teams have to compete, over a period of 3 days, to build specific vehicles (e.g. amphibious cars, remote control tanks, light aircraft) out of what they can find in a (well stocked) scrapheap. The vehicles are invariably unsafe, hastily put together, and look you think they'd look after being made out of scrap. Generally however, each vehicle actually performs the task its made for.

If you took any one of the competitors on scrapheap challenge, and dropped them into (say) Lockheed-Martin, they'd undoubtably flounder (at least initially). The skills required to hack together an aeroplane in 3 days, are entirely different from the set of skills required to design an f22.

Re: Ask HN: The rising “Hackathon Hackers” culture

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think admitting everyone IS possible. It's important to realize that these hackathons spend thousands to fly a lot of out of state hackers in (travel reimbursements). These hackathons will also send buses to nearby colleges, and even colleges out of state (e.g. anything within an 8 hour drive). If they didn't do those things (especially airfare reimbursements - kind of excessive if you ask me, or limiting buses to…

I've been a sponsor at multiple hackathons and have seen how the staff and facilities are already stretched to the limit. It's unclear from the article how or if they prioritized local people, but from this: "In the end, we accepted 708 students ... Combining these numbers with students from the University of Pennsylvania, we anticipate 1200 hackers will be joining us this fall." it sounds as if there was a major eff…

The rejection rate was for non-penn applicants. Any Penn student who wants to can attend.

Re: Ask HN: The rising “Hackathon Hackers” culture

#119
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, if you're criticising selective hackathon idea, you have to go all the way criticise the whole competitiveness of hackathons altogether. Because "selective hackathons" are just a logical continuation of the idea that hackathon can be won. Personally, I don't yet have a definite opinion on the whole matter, but you certainly can't be OK with one thing and be opposed to it's logical conclusion.

Yes, I think that the idea that a hackathon can be "won" is silly too.

I am one of the founders of Hack the North (in Waterloo). We completely agree. In fact, last year we didn't offer any top prizes. Instead, there was a "top 10" which got to present their hacks to everybody. This kept the event fun, and not competitive.

Re: Ask HN: The rising “Hackathon Hackers” culture

#120
I know myself and a large group of students constantly avoid going to hackathons because it teaches you to:

(1) Focus on short sighted goals

(2) reinforce "hacks" as opposed to well engineered code

(3) Not build long lasting projects

I spend 6 - 12 hours a day coding everyday (weekends and all), and I produce (in my opinion) really cool stuff. Producing a quality, bug free, code requires a program to be dynamic, and usually takes weeks to months to code properly. My goal is always to implement a new function every day, one 25 line max function. I actually learn more being consistent, as opposed to being exhausted and hardcoding an address.

I actually (sorry) hate working with the hackathon types, some can code really well in a pinch, but in the end they usually are not reliable and bugs usually go uncorrected. There was a post yesterday about the final 10% of a program being left incomplete, and that's where I feel hackathon types have a tendencies to leave.

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