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Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

sunday-guardian.com

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Re: Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

#31

Post by adventured »

Tinyyy wrote: post #20
mattxxx wrote: post #11

This article is phrased very awkwardly. It reads like giving away free access to certain sites, is the same as making premium internet access. Am I missing something? Facebook hate aside, this is a change meant to give something away . Right?

Yes, it gives away free access of 38 sites. But by doing so, they also encourage more people to forgo purchasing complete internet plans and hence accessing all of the other millions of websites out there. This indirectly drives traffic to this 38 sites that they’ve picked through a very skewed and opaque process, and undermines the concept of net neutrality.

Is your theory that, people who can already afford to buy such access, will now not want to buy access to the rest of the Web / Internet - despite the value proposition offered by that?

Re: Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

#32

Post by dreamdu5t »

sumitviii wrote: post #9
dreamdu5t wrote: post #5

What's wrong with this? They're not preventing you from paying for Internet access, they're offering some access for free. People in India are free to start competing ISPs.

ISP's have to buy license from government. But a HN post showed a way to tunnel normal traffic through FB chat[ ]. : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9203946

Neither Facebook or Reliance Communications Ltd prevent anyone from obtaining those licenses.

Re: Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

#33

Post by pranayairan »

this will create a rat race, there will be big companies like flipkart paytm willing to offer money to Reliance to offer there sites for free. Internet.org is on a path to destroy net neutrality. Reliance has just found 1 way to earn more money without any ethics.

Re: Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

#34

Post by captn3m0 »

gojomo wrote: post #26
nitrogen wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_%28pricing_policy%29 for one example of how giving something away for free can be net worse for the economy/world than charging a fair price for it. Another issue is what is given for free. If free access is given to something that is 80% of what they need, people will have reduced incentive to buy 100%, shrinking the market for the 100% solution, raising its price, and keepi…

If you're swayed by that logic, should perhaps Google be forced to charge users for web search, and Android, and their other "free" offerings that put smaller competitors at a disadvantage?

The difference here is that of "service" and "utility". Google can offer its services for free. However, it should not be allowed to partner with a utility to make its services free, if that makes sense.

Re: Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

#35

Post by detaro »

curiously wrote: post #13

I don't get it, it is free, and worried about being charged to access it beyond the free version?

More "worried about what happens to those sites that can't be accessed for free". If a large number of your potential customers can only access a few sites or have financial incentive to only access them, you are now forced to conduct business through them (and good luck launching a competitor).

Re: Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

#36

Post by adventured »

gojomo wrote: post #26
nitrogen wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_%28pricing_policy%29 for one example of how giving something away for free can be net worse for the economy/world than charging a fair price for it. Another issue is what is given for free. If free access is given to something that is 80% of what they need, people will have reduced incentive to buy 100%, shrinking the market for the 100% solution, raising its price, and keepi…

If you're swayed by that logic, should perhaps Google be forced to charge users for web search, and Android, and their other "free" offerings that put smaller competitors at a disadvantage?

You won't get a response to that, for the same reason you won't get a response to: should all Linux vendors be forced to charge prices comparable to Windows, because otherwise they're dumping?

And of course OpenOffice should be made illegal under that same logic.

Re: Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

#37

Post by captn3m0 »

pranayairan wrote: post #33

this will create a rat race, there will be big companies like flipkart paytm willing to offer money to Reliance to offer there sites for free. Internet.org is on a path to destroy net neutrality. Reliance has just found 1 way to earn more money without any ethics.

Yeah, flipkart came to my mind instantly as well. If internet.org really wants to help improve the state of internet, just subsidize internet as a utility.

Re: Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

#38

Post by captn3m0 »

Also relevant:

internet.org (within India) redirects to 0.internet.org, which takes me to 0.internet.org/unavailable with the following message:

>You must be on the Reliance network to use Internet.org. If you'd like to access these websites for free, use a SIM card from Reliance.

This is really getting out of hand.

Screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/2x1vWZr.png

Re: Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

#39

Post by detaro »

froo wrote: post #30
Tinyyy wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it gives away free access of 38 sites. But by doing so, they also encourage more people to forgo purchasing complete internet plans and hence accessing all of the other millions of websites out there. This indirectly drives traffic to this 38 sites that they’ve picked through a very skewed and opaque process, and undermines the concept of net neutrality.

There is no such thing as a free lunch. This is simply an example of this in effect. If people want full internet access.. pay for it. There is no story here.

I think the worry is about the other direction. Want to offer something to people who only pay for this limited access? Then you better don't do anything these sites don't like, because you have to use them to communicate with your customers (unless you are already big and powerful enough to negotiate such deals yourself)

Re: Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

#40

Post by cookiecide »

dreamdu5t wrote: post #29
cookiecide wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basic telecommunications infrastructure in India is heavily regulated by a government that once actually proposed banning all VoIP services apart from the ones they offer at premium prices. Thanks to a high degree of corruption and bureaucracy, it is near impossible to enter the ISP game unless you have serious monetary or political clout. Simply starting a competing ISP is not really feasible.

Reliance Communications Ltd must pay those entry costs as well. I don't see why that's relevant to my point at all.

Reliance Communications Ltd is an arm of one of the largest companies in India, and one of a very very small number of players who can actually not only afford the entry cost, but actually outspend the competition. I understand that they aren't actively preventing people from competing with them, but it's not much of a stretch to imagine the other big players in Indian telecom following suit, resulting not in fast and slow lanes, but toll free and toll collected lanes. I don't think anyone's saying that Reliance is impinging on the freedom of others to compete with them as an ISP, they're objecting to life being more difficult for internet-based businesses that want to get off the ground without paying a fee to ISPs to get them on the toll free lanes.
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