Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Egypt unveils plans to build new capital east of Cairo

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 57 posts

Re: Egypt unveils plans to build new capital east of Cairo

#41

Post by pgeorgi »

cthalupa wrote: post #6
crdoconnor wrote: post #2

Well, this is why Burma did the exact same thing (anybody who casts their memories back a few years might see how this relates to Egypt): >Naypyitaw, then, is the ultimate insurance against regime change, a masterpiece of urban planning designed to defeat any putative ‘colour revolution’ – not by tanks and water cannons, but by geometry and cartography. 320 kilometres to the south, Rangoon, with five million people,…

While skepticism is healthy, I'm not sure this is a fair comparison. > Mr Alabbar told the BBC, saying that the new development would sit on the edge of the existing city. They're talking about building something on the edge of the current capital. It's not like they're relocating to the middle of nowhere - the distance sounds more like Dallas/Ft. Worth or Minneapolis/St. Paul

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges-Eug%C3%A8ne_Haussmann rebuilt Paris. That was partly for artistic reasons, but the wide boulevards had the nice benefit of being riot-safe.

Looking at a map of Kairo, this may be a similar approach, just that they build it next to the city (since they expect massive expansion in any case) instead of remodelling existing parts: whatever they will build will be more structured, and thus easier to lock down than the maze of the current city.

Re: Egypt unveils plans to build new capital east of Cairo

#43

Post by vacri »

speeder wrote: post #10
crdoconnor wrote: post #2

Well, this is why Burma did the exact same thing (anybody who casts their memories back a few years might see how this relates to Egypt): >Naypyitaw, then, is the ultimate insurance against regime change, a masterpiece of urban planning designed to defeat any putative ‘colour revolution’ – not by tanks and water cannons, but by geometry and cartography. 320 kilometres to the south, Rangoon, with five million people,…

In Egypt case, the new capital looks to be too close to Cairo to give this sort of protection. Brazil changed the capital for that purpose too, and made it masterfully: Brazil had two previous capitals, the first is in Salvador, the capital was there for foreign military reasons: The city is a natural fortress, to attack Salvador by sea you need to navigate inside a bay that has cannons on both sides of the entrance,…

Australia's purpose-built capital city isn't militaristic in origin at all - basically when the country was federating, Melbourne and Sydney, as the largest cities, didn't want the other to be the capital and get more political power as a result. So the capital was built sort-of-maybe halfway between.

Re: Egypt unveils plans to build new capital east of Cairo

#44

Post by 1timeUse »

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #24
Apocryphon wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd expect China or the booming Gulf States to do something like this. Irrational exuberance.

They do: http://www.businessinsider.com/chinas-ghost-cities-in-2014-2...

I apologize for being critical, but that piece is extremely ignorant of what China is actually aiming to do.

Were the city builds part of economic stimulus? Yes, of course.

However China also has a goal to move 250-350 mm citizens into urban living by 2025.

Here's a 2009 report on the subject:

http://www.mckinsey.com/insights/urbanization/preparing_for_...

Without being rude, my link is substantially more weighty / less noisy than yours.

Re: Egypt unveils plans to build new capital east of Cairo

#45

Post by seanmcdirmid »

Apocryphon wrote: post #8
mitchi wrote: post #7

I didn't know some countries could still play Sim City. A tunisian friend was talking to me about the same thing. A new coastal city, big investments coming in, we make this city a center for investments, arts, technology, finance. Well... Good luck. It's more likely to end up empty, like a big mall or expensive appartments no one can afford.

You'd expect China or the booming Gulf States to do something like this. Irrational exuberance.

There are definitely plans to move a lot of government functions out of Beijing into nearby Hebei cities. But the problem is that Beijing is becoming too congested and polluted (the surrounding cities in Hebei are just as bad, so I'm not sure if this will actually work).

Re: Egypt unveils plans to build new capital east of Cairo

#46

Post by yongjik »

speeder wrote: post #21
ta81818 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is the part of the argument I don't understand... why do you need to control the government buildings? Just declare new ones. It's the guns that you need to control to own a country.

Well, if the guns are controlled in the capital, how you control them yourself? Many revolutions that worked, worked because the people in the capital physically wrested control, power is a funny thing, many people that have real power (example: the army soldiers, that actually have the guns with them), prefer the status quo unless it is very clear something changed (example, the soldiers might obey some rebels if th…

But it works the other way, too. The soldiers might obey the current regime more faithfully (or at least more fearfully) if the government sits right behind their back and order them to murder people or be murdered themselves.

In any case, I seriously doubt any armed revolution would happen in Brazil anytime soon. It seems the nation has held popular presidential elections continuously since 1989. You can't persuade people to die on the street, when they can just wait four years and vote the man (or woman) out.

Re: Egypt unveils plans to build new capital east of Cairo

#47

Post by yongjik »

speeder wrote: post #19
eitally wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding Brazil... but on the other hand, Niemeyer's Brasilia ended up being a place completely pedestrian-unfriendly, full of red dust, and generally speaking, not a desirable place to live. Sure, lots of federal employees live there, and take those jobs because they pay well and offer incredible security, but the wealthy who work in Brasilia typically reside in SP or Rio and just fly in to Brasilia Mon-Thurs or si…

But isn't that the point? Make the city unfriendly to masses of pedestrians rushing on your palace to topple you?

Then the dictator is missing the point.

A successful dictator is someone who can manipulate the masses of pedestrians to rush on the palace... to cheer the leader (and to stomp on whatever political enemy the dictator has). A dictator who has to hide from the people is a poor dictator, and the life expectancy of such a regime tend to be short.

Re: Egypt unveils plans to build new capital east of Cairo

#48

Post by sanoli »

speeder wrote: post #10
crdoconnor wrote: post #2

Well, this is why Burma did the exact same thing (anybody who casts their memories back a few years might see how this relates to Egypt): >Naypyitaw, then, is the ultimate insurance against regime change, a masterpiece of urban planning designed to defeat any putative ‘colour revolution’ – not by tanks and water cannons, but by geometry and cartography. 320 kilometres to the south, Rangoon, with five million people,…

In Egypt case, the new capital looks to be too close to Cairo to give this sort of protection. Brazil changed the capital for that purpose too, and made it masterfully: Brazil had two previous capitals, the first is in Salvador, the capital was there for foreign military reasons: The city is a natural fortress, to attack Salvador by sea you need to navigate inside a bay that has cannons on both sides of the entrance,…

The idea that Brasília was designed to stop a popular revolution is a myth, just that. I lived there for close to a decade, and my mother was working in the government during its construction. At one point I tried to find any reference to this somewhat popular idea (amongst leftists, mostly), and I couldn't find anything. I talked to people involved in the architectural planning, and everyone pretty much laughed at the idea. Just because a place has good sniper spots doesn't mean it was the builders' objective. Also, many want impeachment, but many also are protesting against corruption and not impeachment, at least not yet. The people who want a military coup is a minority.

Also, the

Re: Egypt unveils plans to build new capital east of Cairo

#49

Post by ballstothewalls »

nir wrote: post #32

Is there an example of a successful government-planned city anywhere? Best I can think of is Canberra.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abuja

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astana

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bras%C3%ADlia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamabad

I think it is more common than you think: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_community

Re: Egypt unveils plans to build new capital east of Cairo

#50

Post by mjklin »

vacri wrote: post #43
speeder wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Egypt case, the new capital looks to be too close to Cairo to give this sort of protection. Brazil changed the capital for that purpose too, and made it masterfully: Brazil had two previous capitals, the first is in Salvador, the capital was there for foreign military reasons: The city is a natural fortress, to attack Salvador by sea you need to navigate inside a bay that has cannons on both sides of the entrance,…

Australia's purpose-built capital city isn't militaristic in origin at all - basically when the country was federating, Melbourne and Sydney, as the largest cities, didn't want the other to be the capital and get more political power as a result. So the capital was built sort-of-maybe halfway between.

Washington was similar... though rather than cities it was regions that struck the power balance. The previous capitals (New York and Philadelphia) were too far in the northern region.
Post reply on HN