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Reasons not to use Facebook

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Re: Reasons not to use Facebook

#331

Post by spinchange »

rquantz wrote: post #320
spinchange wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't use Facebook, yet lead with claim that it doesn't invade anyone's privacy... Regrettably there are numerous, well documented cases of Facebook doing exactly this. They've literally been taken to court over it several times (look into "Sponsored Stories," "Beacon," etc). Even if you don't use it, they have a shadow profile of you over there waiting, with relationships pre-graphed, simply by virtue of being i…

The mobile app turns on the damn mic I checked my iphone privacy settings because this sounded preposterous, and the Facebook app is not listed as having requested microphone permissions. Is it able to turn on the microphone without requesting permission?

I don't know the details, because I don't use the Facebook mobile app or an iPhone, but the feature is advertised as "opt-in." In my wife's case (who uses an Android) she just noticed it start working one day and was surprised by it.

This is the official announcement of the feature. They emphasize it being "optional" and "opt-in" so, it appears it is off by default, and/or at least toggling that control is more clearly delineated in iOS, etc.

http://newsroom.fb.com/news/2014/05/a-new-optional-way-to-sh...

Re: Reasons not to use Facebook

#332

Post by manigandham »

amirmc wrote: post #182
manigandham wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm with you. Seems like FUD here with this post, there are a few decent ideas about privacy but its a social network and used for connecting to people. Maybe they can relax the real name policy some more but I have plenty of friends that don't use their actual real/legal name and never had a problem. There are effective privacy controls in place now and things like being served ads is such a silly issue to complain…

> "... it's a business that needs to make money, how else is that supposed to happen?" This attitude is what's wrong. Exxon also needs to make money so maybe we should cut them some slack around oil spills. So does Foxconn, so let's not badger them about employment practices. Etc. To your point about how they are supposed to make money. I dunno, innovate on business models, maybe? Advertising has been a driving force…

We have regulations in place, outside of that telling businesses to just "be nice" is naive. It's not like these corporations are filled with evil people, all of this tracking is to deliver better products and increase bottomline. In this case, Facebook sells advertising and the effectiveness of that advertising increases with tracking.

It's always easy to just say "innovate" as if the entire industry is just sitting around for some enlightenment... there are other ways to make money but this is the model that works best for them. Advertising is a fine business model, I've yet to really see an actual objection to this.

Re: Reasons not to use Facebook

#333

Post by manigandham »

icebraining wrote: post #167
manigandham wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm with you. Seems like FUD here with this post, there are a few decent ideas about privacy but its a social network and used for connecting to people. Maybe they can relax the real name policy some more but I have plenty of friends that don't use their actual real/legal name and never had a problem. There are effective privacy controls in place now and things like being served ads is such a silly issue to complain…

I have plenty of friends that don't use their actual real/legal name and never had a problem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_enforcement things like being served ads is such a silly issue to complain about... it's a business that needs to make money, how else is that supposed to happen? Hum, charge people? What is the overall point at the end of this? "Don't use Facebook." I thought that was clear.

Fine, the real name policy is a fuzzy issue and not really fit for discussion here.

Charging people doesn't work since most people want the convenience and ability to communicate with friends but don't want to pay for it. Not a viable model for Facebook. I'm sure you don't just browse the web and offer to pay every site you visit do you?

"Don't use Facebook" is not the point, this is all about fear of privacy in general and just targeted at Facebook but much of it is FUD.

Re: Reasons not to use Facebook

#334

Post by manigandham »

rakoo wrote: post #214
manigandham wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm with you. Seems like FUD here with this post, there are a few decent ideas about privacy but its a social network and used for connecting to people. Maybe they can relax the real name policy some more but I have plenty of friends that don't use their actual real/legal name and never had a problem. There are effective privacy controls in place now and things like being served ads is such a silly issue to complain…

> it's a business that needs to make money, how else is that supposed to happen? That's their problem, not ours. We're not the ones in charge of deciding how exactly they're supposed to make money. If they can't, so be it.

Advertising is one of the most scalable models and it's what works for them.

Who is "we"? Why not (as this article complains) just stop using it then? That's your problem isn't it?

Re: Reasons not to use Facebook

#335

Post by manigandham »

orbifold wrote: post #215
manigandham wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm with you. Seems like FUD here with this post, there are a few decent ideas about privacy but its a social network and used for connecting to people. Maybe they can relax the real name policy some more but I have plenty of friends that don't use their actual real/legal name and never had a problem. There are effective privacy controls in place now and things like being served ads is such a silly issue to complain…

If a business model is not viable without mass surveillance and unprecedented amount of privacy invasion, maybe one should try to come up with better alternatives. Luckily Facebook is already being unbundled and I'm sure with changing technology the need for a centralized hub for social interaction over the internet will fade away. One way could be via the development of new protocols, like an improvement of Email, t…

99.9% of people dont care about all that. They want an easy way to connect with friends/family and even strangers. They dont want to pay for it though so they're willing to be served ads. The model works just fine.

And I keep hearing this all the time, if there are better alternatives than what are they? Facebook has thousands of employees, most just like you and me. They are not an army of evil people planning destruction, they're just optimizing their platform to better serve ads for both their advertisers AND the users. That's it. Where is this "privacy invasion"? What are they taking from you without your consent?

Re: Reasons not to use Facebook

#337

Post by PebblesHD »

enraged_camel wrote: post #100
PebblesHD wrote: post #2

At this point in the evolution in technology, I find that Stallman is increasingly irrelevant when his commentary is basically stating every basic point of the site and then saying its bad. Don't want to use your real name? Don't join a site where the goal is to publicly connect with people you know. Don't want your privacy violated, post only what you feel comfortable with. With every new step in the advance of tech…

>>At this point in the evolution in technology, I find that Stallman is increasingly irrelevant In your HN profile you say that you are a college student and are "still learning the ropes of how the world works." And yet you arrogantly dismiss the ideas and opinions of one of the leading professionals in your own field, who is at least a couple of orders of magnitude more knowledgeable and accomplished than you. Allo…

Still learning is not a barrier to finding the ideas of any particular person antiquated. Look where we are with wearable technology and integration into every part of our lives, and the applications this access has in areas like medicine, then feel free to imagine this ageing pioneer of open software standing in the corner shouting "no no no it has my data it's evil I don't want to be monitored". While he would have an entirely valid point it defeats the entire goal of the technogy.

>and then you arrogantly... Maybe, and that's your opinion, but sadly you responded to such arrogance with condescending 'advice' attacking my perspective instead of proposing where either I or he could have changed out points.

Re: Reasons not to use Facebook

#338

Post by darklajid »

tedunangst wrote: post #118
darklajid wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would Facebook need to verify a phone number? It's a social network, used for jokes, farmville and whatnot. Most people I know that are on FB don't even use their 'real' name. IF someone provides a telephone number in his account details, FB can treat it like a string. I understand why FB would like to 'verify a number', but why should we allow that to happen? Why is this a valid reason to ask for permissions on…

If you don't let people use two factor auth, they bitch about your lack of security. If you let people use two factor auth, they bitch that you're collecting phone numbers. Can't win.

The problem is scope.

TFA is nice. Maybe mandatory when you're providing a service that passes a certain threshold?

But that permission obviously isn't the right answer. FB should ask for permissions to read _all_ SMS to make TFA via SMS a tiny bit more comfortable?

No. TFA solutions exist. Google Authenticator (I wouldn't trust Google with anything, but that's "open" as far as I know) or the Yubico aequivalent are perfectly fine choices for T/HOTP. If you want to send SMS instead (why??), let the user enjoy their platform's copy/paste support to give you the code.

There is not a single reasonable argument, why Facebook (or.. any. Seriously: I cannot think of ONE reason) should be able to read your text messages.

Bringing up TFA is probably (hey, not my native language, I certainly never joined a debating group or whatnot) a failure to argue the point and has a nice latin name or something. Maybe about a true of false Scotsman or what do I know..

If I say "FB shouldn't read texts" that has no relation to "FB should not implement TFA". Nor is it reasonable to imply that they cannot, without that permission.

Re: Reasons not to use Facebook

#339

Post by amirmc »

manigandham wrote: post #335
orbifold wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a business model is not viable without mass surveillance and unprecedented amount of privacy invasion, maybe one should try to come up with better alternatives. Luckily Facebook is already being unbundled and I'm sure with changing technology the need for a centralized hub for social interaction over the internet will fade away. One way could be via the development of new protocols, like an improvement of Email, t…

99.9% of people dont care about all that. They want an easy way to connect with friends/family and even strangers. They dont want to pay for it though so they're willing to be served ads. The model works just fine. And I keep hearing this all the time, if there are better alternatives than what are they? Facebook has thousands of employees, most just like you and me. They are not an army of evil people planning destr…

> "What are they taking from you without your consent?"

Most people don't understand the privacy settings nor do they comprehend the ToS (because the reading-skill level required is too high). So what does 'consent' actually mean in this context?

I feel you're being completely disingenuous in your comments here, so I guess you'd probably just blame the user for not educating themselves.

Re: Reasons not to use Facebook

#340

Post by codesuela »

erodingvar wrote: post #68

> if you talk about your friends in Facebook, you're ratting on them This statement reveals the paranoid perspective behind this publication. While there are many valid reasons why some people may not want to use Facebook, I think it's as interesting to wonder reasons why people would be so opposed to everyone using it. I think had Stallman been less weird, he may feel differently about Facebook. For someone like him…

So what are you saying? Its OK to hurt people who don't fit in?
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