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Reasons not to use Facebook

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Re: Reasons not to use Facebook

#101

Post by yuhong »

MCRed wrote: post #95
kragen wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People value Stallman’s opinions on these matters so highly because he has a remarkable history of being right about them ten or fifteen years before it becomes clear to everyone else that he was right, and he takes the risk of saying what he sees even when it will offend people. In fact, that’s why he’s famous; he’s certainly a good hacker, but the world has quite a number of good hackers who aren’t famous because t…

Can you give an example? For instance, I was aware of Stallman in the 1980s, read his writings back then, didn't think they were correct, and the future he predicted has not come to be. Yes there are some of us who are that old. Specifically, he said that without the virility of his license, there would be no free/open source software and that all software would be locked down and proprietary. The entire open source…

Not always true, especially back in the early days.

Re: Reasons not to use Facebook

#102

Post by scintill76 »

abdias wrote: post #31
jacobolus wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m no fan of Zuckerberg or the CCP, but that’s ridiculous. Hosting a Chinese official at the Facebook office and telling a Chinese news site that he gave some copies of the Chinese president’s new book to his colleagues isn’t any kind of useful evidence about Zuckerberg’s personal political beliefs or Facebook’s governing principles.

It wasn't presented as evidence for any claim. "Apparently" isn't a claim. The correlations between the ideology and what happens with Facebook is synonymous though, so it's neither far fetched. But I guess you need to have some historic understanding to see that (and that's a little too broad to present in a comment field). (edit: for admin: I up-voted this post and got an "user mismatch" error as response page - pe…

By some definitions, "apparently" does soften your statement, but you are still essentially claiming "Zuckerberg is a great admirer of China and socialism" with a citation that doesn't really support that. Going only by your quote, he could just be saying, "I think it will be valuable to my business for my employees to understand Chinese socialism."

By other definitions, "apparently" strengthens your claim to an "obvious" statement of truth, so maybe people are reacting strongly because they read it that way.

Re: Reasons not to use Facebook

#103

Post by detaro »

gbog wrote: post #94
detaro wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His opinions(!) provide an useful reference point, especially since I can trust that they are on one extreme end of the spectrum. I certainly don't agree with all of them, but they make me think about where I make concessions and where I maybe missed that. I rather read an opinion and decide "no, I won't go that far/that is ok for me" instead of being told "all is fine".

Some of RMS opinions are extreme, because they take to an unbearable point some consequence of some ideology. For example refusing to have kids is extreme, most people cannot afford psychologically to not have kids. But RMS opinions about Facebook are not extreme, he doesn't propose to refuse to have friends who are using Facebook, for example. He says just don't use it, it's common sense, just like don't eat fast fo…

"Don't use Facebook" is currently not common sense. Many people are on Facebook and have thought about all these arguments and decided it is worth it to them.

(In the meantime, fewer people seem to consider it common sense to be on Facebook, at least it seems to me less and less people are surprised if someone doesn't use it)

Re: Reasons not to use Facebook

#104

Post by Create »

paulsecwhatt wrote: post #45

I honestly don't understand why people value Stallman's opinions on these matters so highly. I completely disagree with him on essentially everything he writes about these topics. Granted, he's an incredible programmer who contributed immensely to the development of our modern operating systems and the tools we use, and people here love to bring that up ("what - you DON'T KNOW WHO STALLMAN IS? SHAME? HOW DARE YOU CRI…

We begin therefore where they are determined not to end, with the question whether any form of democratic self-government, anywhere, is consistent with the kind of massive, pervasive, surveillance into which the Unites States government has led not only us but the world.

This should not actually be a complicated inquiry.

http://snowdenandthefuture.info/events.html

I honestly don't understand why people value Stallman's opinions on these matters so highly.

https://archive.org/details/EbenMoglen-WhyFreedomOfThoughtRe...

https://benjamin.sonntag.fr/Moglen-at-Re-Publica-Freedom-of-...

Surveillance is not an end toward totalitarianism, it is totalitarianism itself.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/europe-24385999

Re: Reasons not to use Facebook

#105

Post by walterbell »

hobs wrote: post #48
paulsecwhatt wrote: post #45

I honestly don't understand why people value Stallman's opinions on these matters so highly. I completely disagree with him on essentially everything he writes about these topics. Granted, he's an incredible programmer who contributed immensely to the development of our modern operating systems and the tools we use, and people here love to bring that up ("what - you DON'T KNOW WHO STALLMAN IS? SHAME? HOW DARE YOU CRI…

There is literally 100 different links on that page, and you disagree with all of them? Stallman is an ideologue 100%, but if I had to choose Facebook or Stallman, I know which side I am on. (and I dont produce OSS or follow their belief system) Facebook wants a real name because it makes them money more readily when they can identify you more easily and determine your value, not whatever "a better social network" me…

Real names help Facebook to combine offline purchase activity (Axciom) with online activity.

Re: Reasons not to use Facebook

#106

Post by vixen99 »

paulsecwhatt wrote: post #45

I honestly don't understand why people value Stallman's opinions on these matters so highly. I completely disagree with him on essentially everything he writes about these topics. Granted, he's an incredible programmer who contributed immensely to the development of our modern operating systems and the tools we use, and people here love to bring that up ("what - you DON'T KNOW WHO STALLMAN IS? SHAME? HOW DARE YOU CRI…

Isn't the piece mostly a series of correct observations (if they are not, no doubt someone will point this out) about Facebook from which one can come to one's own conclusions?

I'm not interested in your views on Stallman himself. BTW Usain Bolt and anyone else is welcome to present a cogent argued position on the biology of drug doping if that's what he can do. I fail to see where 'teaching' comes into this discussion.

Re: Reasons not to use Facebook

#107

Post by fit2rule »

MCRed wrote: post #95
kragen wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People value Stallman’s opinions on these matters so highly because he has a remarkable history of being right about them ten or fifteen years before it becomes clear to everyone else that he was right, and he takes the risk of saying what he sees even when it will offend people. In fact, that’s why he’s famous; he’s certainly a good hacker, but the world has quite a number of good hackers who aren’t famous because t…

Can you give an example? For instance, I was aware of Stallman in the 1980s, read his writings back then, didn't think they were correct, and the future he predicted has not come to be. Yes there are some of us who are that old. Specifically, he said that without the virility of his license, there would be no free/open source software and that all software would be locked down and proprietary. The entire open source…

Stallman predicted the total surveillance state, and warned of the very dire circumstances it put us all in.

Re: Reasons not to use Facebook

#108

Post by anigbrowl »

Frondo wrote: post #33

My problem with essays like this is that they don't address the more critical underlying point: most people don't recognize privacy as a human right, and most people don't realize why privacy is important and worth protecting. To most people, "if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide" sounds reasonable . That's the deeper problem at work here. With more people on board to why privacy matters, articles l…

~400 million people in EU disagree with you; that's one jurisdiction where privacy is a human right, and this is not just some abstract concept but the basis of legislation you can invoke to force companies to cough up the data they have on you and/or demand it be scrubbed from their databases, even if you originally shared it voluntarily.

Re: Reasons not to use Facebook

#109

Post by fit2rule »

Frondo wrote: post #33

My problem with essays like this is that they don't address the more critical underlying point: most people don't recognize privacy as a human right, and most people don't realize why privacy is important and worth protecting. To most people, "if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide" sounds reasonable . That's the deeper problem at work here. With more people on board to why privacy matters, articles l…

The corollary to this ridiculous argument: "if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide" .. is this:

  If you've done something *right*, you will be the target of those you offend.
When "right" can be defined variously as any one of: a) done something to reduce the effect of the criminal military-industrial complex on society, b) exposed corruption in the ruling elite, c) fought stringently for the rights of minorities who have been oppressed, d) fought valiantly to expose ecological and economic criminality on the part of the industrial elite, &etc.

Just because they say its for fighting criminals doesn't mean that it won't be used to fight revolutionaries and upstarts who mean to bring justice to a destitute world. Every single technology under the sun can be used for good, or evil purposes - the only thing that makes the difference is the intention behind those who wield the technology.

And as of right now, there is no way to monitor/control/adjust the intentions of the super-surveillance state: they, real people behind the masks, simply have too many secret powers.

Re: Reasons not to use Facebook

#110

Post by alexbecker »

abdias wrote: post #31
jacobolus wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m no fan of Zuckerberg or the CCP, but that’s ridiculous. Hosting a Chinese official at the Facebook office and telling a Chinese news site that he gave some copies of the Chinese president’s new book to his colleagues isn’t any kind of useful evidence about Zuckerberg’s personal political beliefs or Facebook’s governing principles.

It wasn't presented as evidence for any claim. "Apparently" isn't a claim. The correlations between the ideology and what happens with Facebook is synonymous though, so it's neither far fetched. But I guess you need to have some historic understanding to see that (and that's a little too broad to present in a comment field). (edit: for admin: I up-voted this post and got an "user mismatch" error as response page - pe…

> "Apparently" isn't a claim.

Since when?

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