California has about one year of water left • Hacker News Board

Re: California has about one year of water left

#381

Post by mc32 » Sat, Mar 14, 2015, 3:27 AM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #340

mc32 wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Farms work on thin margins, so jacking the price on them might not be the first step to take. A few things we can do: Increase rates to households. Fix the delivery system to residences so that we don't lose approx 30% to leakage Invest in desalination and make it a viable alternative Incentivize drip irrigation where applicable (ie. almonds, but not rice) Of course increased water conservation.

Too goddamn bad, maybe it's time some more farmers went bankrupt. Reducing household water usage is not going to be enough to offset the hugely wasteful consumption by agriculture. My water bill is not too high, but I have to say that I am not too enthused about watching it go up this years after we cut my household usage by around 30% over the last year. I didn't see a corresponding drop in the bill because most of…

If farming in Calif went bust, a few things would happen:

Foodstuff would get more expensive.

We'd import more food, meaning fewer 'local' products. Localvores would have to become 'televores'.

Much of the no-education, low education jobs would disappear for people who have little other than their physical ability to offer the job marketplace.

Re: California has about one year of water left

#382

Post by ilaksh » Sat, Mar 14, 2015, 3:47 AM UTC

Hydroponics?

Re: California has about one year of water left

#383

Post by aceperry » Sat, Mar 14, 2015, 3:55 AM UTC

This is definitely concerning. I used to wash my car and truck about every week or two when they were new. Today, I haven't washed them in over two years. During the last "big" storm in the bay area, I was hoping to go outside and wash my truck during the rain. I was down with the flu and couldn't do it, but didn't miss much. I don't think I could've washed the truck, unlike many years ago when I actually washed my car during a rainstorm. The other day, I rinsed off some bird crap from the side of my truck, it was a huge mess but I used the leftovers from a plastic bottled water. Just trying to conserve water. I feel sorry for Uber/Lyft drivers who have to keep their cars clean.

Re: California has about one year of water left

#384

Post by openloop » Sat, Mar 14, 2015, 4:52 AM UTC

So maybe crops have to change. Surely the epicenter of science and engineering can figure out a responsible way to harness solar desalinization. A bond could be offered with a nominal return to investors.

Re: California has about one year of water left

#385

Post by swimfar » Sat, Mar 14, 2015, 4:56 AM UTC

declan wrote: post #321

80 percent of the developed water supply in California is used by agriculture. About 6 percent is industrial and commercial. That leaves 7 percent residential landscaping, and 7 percent residential non-landscaping (showers, washing machines, etc.). Source: http://www.kcet.org/updaily/socal_focus/commentary/where-we-... Even if residential landscaping or non-landscaping water usage dropped by a quarter immediately, wh…

How is 7% close to a rounding error? Especially when, in the case of landscaping, it is not a necessity and is almost completely for aesthetics[1]. If someone said they had money problems and it turns out they spend 7% of their income on makeup/barber visits/tanning salons, would you not point those out as possible expenses to reduce?

Just because residential usage is not the main source of the problem doesn't mean people should just not care about it at all. I'm not implying that everyone take 30 second showers. I just think it's important to be conscious of your water usage and reducing it when it makes sense. Addressing multiple sources of the problem simultaneously is possible. Also, sometimes it's possible that you're able to reduce the smaller portion more than the larger portion, so you should never focus only on the large numbers.

[1] Okay, neither are almonds, but I think you understand what I mean.

Re: California has about one year of water left

#386

Post by tracker1 » Sat, Mar 14, 2015, 5:04 AM UTC

Mz wrote: post #332

tracker1 wrote: post #282

We have oil pipelines stretching thousands of miles... why don't we create a water pipeline, sending fresh water to the southwest? I've never really understood why this wasn't an obvious thing started 80+ years ago. We created roadways, and a fairly complex electricity grid... water transfer has been a critical thing forever, and something we haven't really addressed on a national level. Not only that, but hydrogen a…

Yeah, California already gets a portion of the Colorado River. http://www.mwdh2o.com/mwdh2o/pages/yourwater/supply/colorado... So it's been done. The crux of the problem here is that the history of the state is all about thinking like you do -- "let's just import more water" -- instead of finding ways to live within our means in terms of available water out here. So Californians like to have their own pools and like…

I wasn't intending to bring more from the Colorado river.. I was meaning more from the midwest and southeast where there is flooding most years... A lot of that could be siphoned out without too much affect on those regions... we have the ability to move water much farther distances.

For that matter, look at the northern europe and scandanavian research into water purification.. we should also be working towards this effort.

Re: California has about one year of water left

#387

Post by anigbrowl » Sat, Mar 14, 2015, 5:47 AM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #381

anigbrowl wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too goddamn bad, maybe it's time some more farmers went bankrupt. Reducing household water usage is not going to be enough to offset the hugely wasteful consumption by agriculture. My water bill is not too high, but I have to say that I am not too enthused about watching it go up this years after we cut my household usage by around 30% over the last year. I didn't see a corresponding drop in the bill because most of…

If farming in Calif went bust, a few things would happen: Foodstuff would get more expensive. We'd import more food, meaning fewer 'local' products. Localvores would have to become 'televores'. Much of the no-education, low education jobs would disappear for people who have little other than their physical ability to offer the job marketplace.

You'd also see a special election to recall the Governor, I think - Central California trends heavily Republican and people there have convinced themselves that it's all the fault of the coastal cities for not building desalination plants. They're not sympathetic to the environmental arguments.

Gray Davis was recalled for less back in the early 2000s, although Arnold Schwarzenegger turned out to be a lot more moderate and forward-thinking than the Republican voters anticipated. Gov/ Brown is already in bad odor with the farming lobby, although the successful passage of the water infrastructure bond ballot proposal has given him more of a mandate than he might otherwise have had.

Re: California has about one year of water left

#388

Post by declan » Sat, Mar 14, 2015, 5:57 AM UTC

swimfar wrote: post #385

declan wrote: post #321

80 percent of the developed water supply in California is used by agriculture. About 6 percent is industrial and commercial. That leaves 7 percent residential landscaping, and 7 percent residential non-landscaping (showers, washing machines, etc.). Source: http://www.kcet.org/updaily/socal_focus/commentary/where-we-... Even if residential landscaping or non-landscaping water usage dropped by a quarter immediately, wh…

How is 7% close to a rounding error? Especially when, in the case of landscaping, it is not a necessity and is almost completely for aesthetics[1]. If someone said they had money problems and it turns out they spend 7% of their income on makeup/barber visits/tanning salons, would you not point those out as possible expenses to reduce? Just because residential usage is not the main source of the problem doesn't mean p…

>How is 7% close to a rounding error?

I didn't say 7% was a rounding error. I wrote "a quarter" of 7%, which is rather different.

Re: California has about one year of water left

#389

Post by swimfar » Sat, Mar 14, 2015, 6:27 AM UTC

declan wrote: post #388

swimfar wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is 7% close to a rounding error? Especially when, in the case of landscaping, it is not a necessity and is almost completely for aesthetics[1]. If someone said they had money problems and it turns out they spend 7% of their income on makeup/barber visits/tanning salons, would you not point those out as possible expenses to reduce? Just because residential usage is not the main source of the problem doesn't mean p…

>How is 7% close to a rounding error? I didn't say 7% was a rounding error. I wrote "a quarter" of 7%, which is rather different.

Ahh, sorry, I missed that (in a display of very poor reading skills). That does make more sense.

But if commercial landscaping isn't included in that 7%, this number becomes larger. And if the drought is very serious, why wouldn't it be theoretically possible to cut landscaping usage down to near 0%? A 25% reduction seems like it would be very easy. (Although, I admit I don't have any idea what the breakdown of landscaping water usage looks like.)

Re: California has about one year of water left

#390

Post by the_watcher » Sat, Mar 14, 2015, 6:47 AM UTC

aero142 wrote: post #376

the_watcher wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Related to this: California is one of the largest producers of rice (one of the most water-intensive crops in the world) in the United States. Rice (and other water intensive crops) shouldn't be grown in places that have water issues.

Texas is also recovering from a 10 year drought and was growing rice up until last year. It's just crazy.

I lived in Texas for 3 years during the drought and had no idea they were growing rice.