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Why Our Children Don't Think There Are Moral Facts

opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com

41–50 of 165 posts

Re: Why Our Children Don't Think There Are Moral Facts

#41
"It should not be a surprise that there is rampant cheating on college campuses: If we’ve taught our students for 12 years that there is no fact of the matter as to whether cheating is wrong, we can’t very well blame them for doing so later on."

What if we say "cheating is not allowed". Can we blame them then?

Re: Why Our Children Don't Think There Are Moral Facts

#42
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you just probably never thought about what "knowing" actually means. Put simply, he wasn't there when Washington was President so he can only believe that historical resources are telling the truth.

Sure, or if he'd been alive, he could only believe his senses are telling the truth :-/

Hah, all philosophical discussions can end in solipsism if you want them to. I think it’s more fun when they don’t.

Re: Why Our Children Don't Think There Are Moral Facts

#43
post #17

The article doesn't provide anything to back the claim that moral opinions may be universally, non-subjectively true. The cartoonist example is deeply flawed. We're outraged because this event violated our deepest beliefs and values we hold dear, not because it violated some universal eternal moral law. We also know that there were people that weren't saddened by this event too. This is the problem I have with many p…

> Everything is just an opinion.

Including everything you just wrote. I'm not sure why you're so down on his claims when your position is circular at best.

Is everything relative so everyone has a valid opinion? Or is everything relative so that nobody has a valid opinion? Either way, why do you care?

Re: Why Our Children Don't Think There Are Moral Facts

#44

The ignorance is much easier to process upon learning that the author works at an episcopal church and is on the committee of two "Societies of Christian Philosophers". http://www.justinmcbrayer.com/#!leadership/c53p

Despite it being ad-hominem, I'll let it play because it helped stop my eyes from continuing to roll every time I replayed his arguments.

Re: Why Our Children Don't Think There Are Moral Facts

#46
post #2

Are there moral facts?

I think if you could show that certain morals were genetic and present in the majority, rather than learned, you'd have a basis for calling those moral facts for humans.

I think you would quickly have to conclude that rape, murder, sexism and racism are genetic facts about humans; they're shared with the other animals we're descended from, and they've been part of our history forever. I think if we held this definition, morality would not be very useful as a concept.

Here's an old debate between (professor) Peter Singer and (judge) Richard Posner, where Posner holds this claim that morality is based on these "tenacious moral intuitions" and Singer argues against him: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/dialogues/fe...

Re: Why Our Children Don't Think There Are Moral Facts

#47
post #9
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I meant was, his son's blank stare is exactly my reaction as a 30 year old adult --- I can't comprehend how this guy doesn't comprehend how stupid his questions are.

No, you just probably never thought about what "knowing" actually means. Put simply, he wasn't there when Washington was President so he can only believe that historical resources are telling the truth.

You have just successfully banished the word by stripping it of any legitimate usage.

Since it was quite a useful word that will undoubtedly be missed, why not being it back with a simple redefinition. We could redefine it as "close enough to true that only a philosopher would object". Then we could continue to use the word, despite the obnoxious objections of philosophers.

Epistemology may be all very neat and interesting, but in the real world there is little place for it. We frequently need to express ideas that may not necessarily be "philosophically pure", in order to get shit done in a timely manner. Think of the concept of "fact" as foma.

Re: Why Our Children Don't Think There Are Moral Facts

#48

I mean they are facts in that most everyone agrees on them, which is one usage of the word "fact". But they're not facts in the same way as "the sun will rise tomorrow" or "2 + 2 = 4" (which those statements themselves are two different types of fact also!).

The sun will rise tomorrow is an opinion/speculation. The sun rose today is a fact.

The sun rose today is a fact only if you can prove it. I think you're crazy everyone knows the sun just appeared out of nowhere.

PS: Your aunt Sally called, she misses you.

Re: Why Our Children Don't Think There Are Moral Facts

#50
post #17

The article doesn't provide anything to back the claim that moral opinions may be universally, non-subjectively true. The cartoonist example is deeply flawed. We're outraged because this event violated our deepest beliefs and values we hold dear, not because it violated some universal eternal moral law. We also know that there were people that weren't saddened by this event too. This is the problem I have with many p…

It seems that philosophers rarely make use of rigorous logic even though they stand to benefit from it immensely.
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