Acre-feet? Can someone translate this into furlong-leagues? Or preferably, y'know, an SI fluid measure like litres?
California has about one year of water left
221–230 of 405 posts
Re: California has about one year of water left
#222Just to add my 2 cents. I'm based in Saudi Arabia, and considering the deserted climate and environment, there are literally no persistent water sources (aside from a few select wells that are over-exploited by bottled water manufacturers). Desalination is currently (as of 2015) being used to supply 50% of Saudi Arabia's water needs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in_... So yes, it's feasibl…
Great point. When people talk about California's water problems they make it sound as if there isn't an easy solution, but there is. The real core of this entire issue is not the methods but more the cost, it is ultimately a conversation about saving money NOT about some finite limitation on water in real terms. California could solve this issue with a pen stroke, it just might hurt their farmers, which is really wha…
This is part of what is needed. Water rights in California are as old as the state and extremely convoluted. Those with the older water rights have a practically guaranteed supply and generally irrigate in remarkably wasteful ways. Breaking the old water rights and increasing the price of water would push farmers to move to Israeli style computer controlled drip irrigation rather than current methods of just spraying tons of water over the field. Gov Brown was talking about bring that technology over and pushing it hard into farming...
Re: California has about one year of water left
#223Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hate to be that guy but do you have a source for this? That's pretty incredible and I'd want to read more. nevermind: the parent article pretty much covers it
Sure, here's some mainstream reporting of it http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/02/wheres-califo... And here's the original research. http://www.waterfootprint.org/Reports/Report47-WaterFootprin...
Wow--thanks! The "How Thirsty Is Your Food" infographic from the first link is really incredible. Definitely makes me think differently about eating handfuls of almonds, or a huge amount of broc with dinner.
Re: California has about one year of water left
#224Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think simply phasing out water subsidies would be a huge win. I've read a fair number of reports suggesting that, while not great, the situation would be considerably improved if farmers had an incentive to invest in more efficient irrigation techniques or switch to more drought-tolerant crops. The catch is that it costs money and that's risky if you're the first one in the industry doing it – if the government ann…
There's a related issue of perennial, tree, and more orchard-like agriculture rather than seasonal crops. These farmers cannot reduce their water consumption without suffering massive losses - they're price insensitive on water to a large extent, and their choices are irrigate or go bankrupt. IIRC, avocado trees are a big culprit for California's future commitment to consuming water for agricultural purposes.
You're right - any trees or vines are an issue when it comes to drought management. When you lose a tree or vine, it can take multiple years to get back to productive levels. It's very different when you're planting seasonal crops and can choose to skip a season.
Re: California has about one year of water left
#225Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are other places in the world where these crops can be grown. People in those countries will be more than happy to trade us almonds, rice, bananas and the like in exchange for things we are great at producing like software and music. It's a win-win.
Yes... Destroying an entire industry in a country is a win win...
California's water reserves can't sustain the ridiculously wasteful agriculture that Californian farmers have been growing for decades, and a huge amount of California's water use is going towards agriculture to grow almonds, rice, and grapes in the desert.
Those crops are going to have to come from somewhere else pretty soon regardless.
Re: California has about one year of water left
#226Seems a good time to post this:
http://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_world...
It a TED talk about reversing desertification with farming practices. Not applicable to every crop, but here you go.
Re: California has about one year of water left
#227Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are other places in the world where these crops can be grown. People in those countries will be more than happy to trade us almonds, rice, bananas and the like in exchange for things we are great at producing like software and music. It's a win-win.
Food security is the reason governments stick their noses in an otherwise free market.
Even if we accept that argument, which I think is a little far-fetched given the countries that would need to get on board for a hypothetical food embargo against the US to be effective, there's no national security implications to almonds and there are good substitutes for rice and cotton.
In a real pinch the agricultural production dedicated to ethanol can be redirected to food, and perhaps most importantly even a small shift in the meat/plant balance towards plants creates a huge calorie surplus.
In short, food security looks more like a post hoc rationalization than a good justification for our terrible policy landscape when it comes to agriculture.
Re: California has about one year of water left
#228Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're right, if people can't afford water to drink, they're clearly not valuable enough to live. If a farm can't afford water for crops, the crops weren't profitable enough to grow anyway. And if the rest of the nation can't afford food since some foods will be scarce without California farms, they should just be more productive. No need for regulation!
Give me a break. Metered residential water servive in LA is less than a penny a gallon! There's nobody who couldn't afford water to drink even if we doubled or tripled the price. Nobody in the entire state!
Ok, so you've addressed one point out of three. And do you think all the farmers are just going to pack up and move?
Re: California has about one year of water left
#229Disclaimer: I have no clue if what I'm proposing is realistic or not, but: Perhaps the federal government should step in and gradually step down the level of subsidies given to farmers in California and gradually increase subsidies given to NEW farmers in other, more water rich parts of the country. This would have the effect of moving farms to more sustainable locations in the country. Sure, the types of crops produ…
If the rest of the country could grow the same crops as "America's Salad Bowl" we would. California is ideal for those crops and without the large population would be fine. It is probably past time to actually push desalination plants or convince a lot of people to move somewhere else.
Well, given that their problem is an excess of sunshine, solar powered desalination plants strike me as excellent insurance against these conditions.
Re: California has about one year of water left
#230Disclaimer: I have no clue if what I'm proposing is realistic or not, but: Perhaps the federal government should step in and gradually step down the level of subsidies given to farmers in California and gradually increase subsidies given to NEW farmers in other, more water rich parts of the country. This would have the effect of moving farms to more sustainable locations in the country. Sure, the types of crops produ…
I think simply phasing out water subsidies would be a huge win. I've read a fair number of reports suggesting that, while not great, the situation would be considerably improved if farmers had an incentive to invest in more efficient irrigation techniques or switch to more drought-tolerant crops. The catch is that it costs money and that's risky if you're the first one in the industry doing it – if the government ann…
Judging by the number of protest signs (Water = Jobs, etc) I see every time I go through the Central Valley, and the increasing acreage that seems to be returning to desert conditions, this seems to have been happening for a while.