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My Roommate, the Darknet Drug Lord

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Re: My Roommate, the Darknet Drug Lord

#151

Post by pavel_lishin »

abawany wrote: post #143
pavel_lishin wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I knew them vaguely as well, sharing some friends. (I'd wager we've probably met in real life at UTD a few times.) Was Richard the guy who went as a flasher at a Halloween party? Because every time I read about him testifying in court, I'm imagining him doing so in that costume, which was ... graphic.

I never knew UTD had such goings-on, probably because I was just an evening student who attended business classes there :) (FYI: I have been a developer most of my life - just wanted to broaden my horizons re. business.) I think I also know a Richard Bates from UTD, as a co-worker (but I am not real sure that it is the same person so I won't be too specific as to company and etc.). I found this Richard Bates to be a…

Yeah, there was a fair amount of stuff happening at UTD when I was there - it was easy to miss if you didn't live on campus, or if you only attended in the evenings. Sorry you missed out on the fun!

Although, to be fair, some of that 'fun" was actually pretty regrettable in hindsight. But them's part of learnin'.

I didn't know Richard well, but nothing I learned about him made him seem like he would be a bad employee, except I guess the possible personality clash, which can be true of anyone.

Re: My Roommate, the Darknet Drug Lord

#152

Post by logfromblammo »

s73v3r wrote: post #121
logfromblammo wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My ethical system considers intent, consequences in specific, consequences in general, economic impact, psychological factors, and next-best alternatives for each actor. Thoughtlessly ordering someone else to commit a murder is definitively worse than ordering someone else to commit a murder after careful and deliberate consideration, presuming all other factors remain equal. In my view, killing someone just because…

In all of those examples, those actions are so far beyond the point of "bad" that one being worse than the other is largely an academic argument, and completely moot. And he did not know that it was fake. Therefore any idea that he's off the hook because no one got hurt is irrelevant. It could have just as easily been real, and then people would have died because of his actions.

I disagree. Laws in American states provide for different degrees of murder, and can adjust the range of punishments accordingly. Inchoate offenses can be tacked on for actions that increase the severity of the crime or attach guilt to other people.

We simply have different rules in our ethical systems, you and I.

I, for one, am less apt to makes crimes of someone's thoughts or intentions, in the absence of actual harm. I also feel the role of policing should be more in the nature of investigation, capture, and detention awaiting trial, rather than prophylactic protection.

I would very much like all police work to start with identifying that a crime has occurred, work backwards to find out who did it, capture that person, and then turn over the person and all available evidence to the courts. I find the trend towards identifying a potential criminal, then gathering evidence on that person until a crime can be identified, to be anathema to a free society.

Whether RU committed the crimes of attempted murder and conspiracy to commit murder or not, the police committed crimes themselves in exposing him, and I find it more acceptable ethically for the guilty man to go free than to allow the state's justice system to profit by its own corruption. That's the fruit of the poison tree doctrine. It's how we keep a free society free, and how we protect cops from retaliatory violence from the people who feel they are serving themselves rather than justice.

Re: My Roommate, the Darknet Drug Lord

#153

Post by pc86 »

marktangotango wrote: post #150
pc86 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is they are because your comment has nothing to do with anything being discussed.

I was referring to the collapse in software development jobs after the 'first internet bubble' burst in 01-02 and extrapolating another jobs collapse after this bubble bursts. Guess people here don't have that perspective.

> I tend to think the current bubble is related to Fed policy

Not relevant to the discussion, or the 01-02 burst, or salaries, or anything else.

Re: My Roommate, the Darknet Drug Lord

#154

Post by marktangotango »

pc86 wrote: post #153
marktangotango wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was referring to the collapse in software development jobs after the 'first internet bubble' burst in 01-02 and extrapolating another jobs collapse after this bubble bursts. Guess people here don't have that perspective.

> I tend to think the current bubble is related to Fed policy Not relevant to the discussion, or the 01-02 burst, or salaries, or anything else.

Good thing that was just my .02, as indicated. Surely no one would down vote a personal opinion, clearly marked as such?

Re: My Roommate, the Darknet Drug Lord

#155

Post by s73v3r »

logfromblammo wrote: post #152
s73v3r wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all of those examples, those actions are so far beyond the point of "bad" that one being worse than the other is largely an academic argument, and completely moot. And he did not know that it was fake. Therefore any idea that he's off the hook because no one got hurt is irrelevant. It could have just as easily been real, and then people would have died because of his actions.

I disagree. Laws in American states provide for different degrees of murder, and can adjust the range of punishments accordingly. Inchoate offenses can be tacked on for actions that increase the severity of the crime or attach guilt to other people. We simply have different rules in our ethical systems, you and I. I, for one, am less apt to makes crimes of someone's thoughts or intentions, in the absence of actual ha…

No. The police did not commit crimes in exposing him.

Re: My Roommate, the Darknet Drug Lord

#156

Post by s73v3r »

msandford wrote: post #125
s73v3r wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Please explain to me how two criminals who have some sort of dispute -- like say how to disburse the proceeds from a robbery -- have any recourse through the courts. " I never said they had recourse through the courts. I said they're adults, and are perfectly capable of settling disputes among themselves without resorting to violence. If they choose to resort to violence, that's entirely their fault, and no one else…

According to that logic we don't need courts, police, government, etc at all. I think it's a great idea, but practically speaking it's not awesome. I like the idea of a microkernel government better than the monolithic thing that we currently have, where you can subscribe to police and fire and whatever. I'd prefer that the government mostly provide courts and a system by which other areas of natural monopoly are bet…

I'm not saying anything like that at all. And I do not respect any argument that mentions the "monopoly on violence" bullcrap.

These people made their choices. They decided, of their own free will, to become involved in something they knew to be highly illegal. Everything that follows is their fault, and their fault alone. Saying that because these things are illegal means they have to resort to violence is to give them a free pass, and absolve them of their own responsibility.

Re: My Roommate, the Darknet Drug Lord

#157

Post by logfromblammo »

s73v3r wrote: post #155
logfromblammo wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Laws in American states provide for different degrees of murder, and can adjust the range of punishments accordingly. Inchoate offenses can be tacked on for actions that increase the severity of the crime or attach guilt to other people. We simply have different rules in our ethical systems, you and I. I, for one, am less apt to makes crimes of someone's thoughts or intentions, in the absence of actual ha…

No. The police did not commit crimes in exposing him.

They solicited him to buy a murder for hire. It's a crime when you do it. It's a crime when the cops do it. It's a crime when Richard Nixon does it.

The evidence of other crimes was collected as a result. Even if he was guilty beyond doubt, that's still poisoned fruit.

Re: My Roommate, the Darknet Drug Lord

#158

Post by malka »

mbillie1 wrote: post #6
q7 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh c'mon, he ordered a hitman inside a play the FBI fully staged for him. There was never any harm done to anybody. Pure entrapment. Create a fake simulated decision dilemma he never had to decide in real life, put a lot of emotional pressure on him, and then when he made a bad decision inside this simulation that harmed nobody, try to condemn him for it. He hasn't lost my goodwill yet.

> Oh c'mon, he ordered a hitman inside a play the FBI fully staged for him. There was never any harm done to anybody. I'm not sure this line of reasoning makes a lot of difference. We judge criminal intent, not simply outcome, and it's pretty clear that the intent in hiring a hitman is to have someone killed - staged or not. It's surely different from pulling the trigger yourself, but I think it's quite fair to expec…

SO, in his line of business, what would be the 'good thing to do, when someone blackmail your whole customer base ? Sue ? Sadly, due to the prohibition, hitmen and violence are the only way for people like Ulbricht to deal with such issues.

Re: My Roommate, the Darknet Drug Lord

#159

Post by anonbanker »

marktangotango wrote: post #154
pc86 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I tend to think the current bubble is related to Fed policy Not relevant to the discussion, or the 01-02 burst, or salaries, or anything else.

Good thing that was just my .02, as indicated. Surely no one would down vote a personal opinion, clearly marked as such?

they would downvote a personal opinion.

and don't call him shirley.

Re: My Roommate, the Darknet Drug Lord

#160

Post by lectrick »

s73v3r wrote: post #116
lectrick wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead, they come from groups that cause a lot of harm in order to acquire the money from selling those drugs. Yes, legalizing responsible production would largely fix this problem, but a current purchase still funds a horrible group. So basically, to rephrase, the existence of the law is what makes the law necessary. It's almost tautological. IF it were treated as a public health problem (Portugal apparently did…

" Instead, the intelligent, optimistic, apparently caring mind" Interesting way to describe someone who apparently tried to hire people to murder others in cold blood.

You're a fool if you honestly believe that you can't be put into a situation that would cause you to at least consider offing someone. Especially someone who was trying to extort/blackmail you.

The most drastic realization we'll have in the future (relative to now) is that situations determine behavior far more than any notion of free will, so avoidong creation of the situations that cause people to consider crime will become the priority.

Here is but one of MANY examples of outstanding-seeming people who were undone by their situations:

http://m.chron.com/news/nation-world/article/Nowak-recalled-...

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