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We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

nytimes.com

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Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#91

Post by yummyfajitas »

pedrocr wrote: post #46
anamax wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So on that count Americans do appear to be richer, assuming of course they are getting equal average amounts of education and healthcare on their private purchases as the Europeans are getting on their tax dollars. That assumption is rather dodgy on a couple of points. One is that a lot of healthcare and education in the US is tax-supported. Another is that a rational person may choose to spend money on things othe…

>That assumption is rather dodgy on a couple of points. I thought so too, that is why I pointed it out. >One is that a lot of healthcare and education in the US is tax-supported. It may very well be but less of it is compared to Scandinavia so the point is the same. >Another is that a rational person may choose to spend money on things other than healthcare and education. Forcing them to spend it on healthcare and ed…

Very true of course, but then you can't really argue that the Scandinavians are worse off because they can buy less retail goods because they put more money into their government to get healthcare and education.

Actually you can. That's part of the deadweight loss of taxation: you are forced to spend money on stuff you don't want and are unable to spend on stuff you do want.

If person X would choose to spend $100 on an ipod, but is instead forced to spend $100 on education which they only value at $80, they have lost $20 of value.

Now, in a democracy, people in the situation of person X may only make up 50% - 1 of the population, but that doesn't change the fact that they lose.

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#92

Post by megamark16 »

fnid wrote: post #19
hop wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets not take it out of perspective - no one will starve here, this isn't Uganda, and Domino's has $5 Pizzas.

Actually, people do in fact starve in the united states every year. Edit: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr57/nvsr57_14.pdf Page 33 says roughly 2500 people die of malnutrition and nutritional deficiencies.

My sister in law's family (parents and siblings) are all on welfare and receive food stamps. They find clever ways of using their food stamps to get cigarettes, drugs and alcohol (such as "selling" them to family and friends for cash), and more often then not they run out of food by the end of the month. Her teenage sister just had a baby and they were asking around for money for formula, even though they get hundreds of dollars a month in food stamps (more money per family member then my own family spends each month on food). I wouldn't be surprised if at least a few of her family members are malnourished, but you can't force feed people.

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#93

Post by forensic »

hop wrote: post #15
forensic wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're taking a middle class perspective poor people in the US can't afford pizza. poor people in scandinavia don't really exist.

Lets not take it out of perspective - no one will starve here, this isn't Uganda, and Domino's has $5 Pizzas.

pizza isn't an issue of starvation, it's a luxury good

norweigian pizza is expensive but everyone can afford it once in awhile

american pizza is cheap but many cannot afford it at all

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#94

Post by davidw »

zackattack wrote: post #90
davidw wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that sort of discussion is simply not germane to this site, and especially not facile treatments such as "our capitalist masters".

It absolutely is germane to this site. Many of us are entrepreneurs, hacking capitalism. I think that "capitalist masters" is actually a succinct treatment of the state of things in the US, and challenge you to better articulate the nature of things so concisely.

All this is, is handwaving and opinions, though, because we can't very well agree to or define what this "capitalist masters" business is, can we? Is PG one of the capitalist masters? People are bound to have different opinions, and it really comes down to politics, which is poisonous for sites like this.

Also, entrepreneurship isn't really "hacking capitalism" - it's part and parcel of it, and it seems to me that if you don't believe in capitalism in some form (be it the Norwegian, American or some other variety), this site doesn't seem to be appropriate.

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#96

Post by yummyfajitas »

fnid wrote: post #19
hop wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets not take it out of perspective - no one will starve here, this isn't Uganda, and Domino's has $5 Pizzas.

Actually, people do in fact starve in the united states every year. Edit: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr57/nvsr57_14.pdf Page 33 says roughly 2500 people die of malnutrition and nutritional deficiencies.

You need to present evidence people are starving due to poverty.

There are all sorts of reasons one might die of malnutrition. Bulimia, for instance, is said to affect about 0.2% of men and 1.3% of women. Anorexia affects another 0.3% of people, mostly women.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulimia_nervosa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anorexia_nervosa

HIV and many geriatric conditions also can cause malnutrition.

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#97

Post by zackattack »

michael_dorfman wrote: post #35
tianaco wrote: post #12

This confirms my brother's stories. He has a penchant for dating Scandinavian women--thusfar he's dated women from Denmark and Norway and has visited them and their families. Denmark was, of course, expensive by US standards. But upon returning from Norway, he remarked on the absurdly high cost of living. He made lasagna for his Norwegian girlfriend's family and it ended up costing around $60 US--just for the ingredi…

I'm an American living in Norway, and I can confirm half of what you write: the costs you describe are pretty accurate. However, you drop the ball when you write "It's not affordable unless you're absurdly wealthy." The fact is, the salary range in Norway is high, and quite compressed. Everyone can afford to make lasagna.

Are you KIDDING me? How is this possible?

Can you please tell me exactly how much ingredients cost, and what a typical starting salary is for a college graduate in Norway?

Not to say "I don't believe you", but I'm incredulous. This is shocking.

P.S. Why are you an American living in Norway? How is it?

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#98

Post by Ras_ »

berntb wrote: post #47
dschobel wrote: post #2

It's fascinating to see how even a nation with a free media can still have total buy-in to an entirely delusional self-image. Scary stuff.

If Norway is as Sweden/Finland, the food prices can be seen as a result of monopolists/oligopolies, Microsoft-style. Since the population still mostly read local media, they aren't aware of reality. And it is possible for the food chains to avoid getting the population enlightened using large ad accounts in the media. This has become a bit better in Sweden over the last decade, but e.g. Finland is still almost as exp…

We had a meat re-dating scandal in Finland too. I believe it was this summer.

Omnipresent consensus-mentality unique to Scandinavia does sometimes prevent seeing the wood for the trees.

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#99

Post by sethg »

potatolicious wrote: post #57
electromagnetic wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a testament to the differences between perception and reality. The NHS in the UK regularly gets poor ratings, in fact they're regularly flat out abysmal on national satisfaction scales, yet all out-patient questionnaire's regularly return with satisfaction rates >90%. People perceive the NHS as this behemoth incapable of performing, but the reality is that it performs amazingly well and provides one of the best…

" Yet respondents states that Canadians dislike America on a whole more since Obama took office than before, and that Canadians feel less safe visiting the US than before." Funny you mention that. I just took a train tonight from Vancouver Canada, to Seattle WA. The difference between the two places for night and day, and what you just said sums it up perfectly. When I got on the train on the Canadian side, the stree…

I've never been to Seattle but it wouldn't surprise me if, in general, the homeless tend to congregate in or near major train stations. They're open 24/7; they're warm; the opportunities for panhandling are good (because of the number of people passing through).

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#100

Post by hop »

wisty wrote: post #43
hop wrote: post #9

The Economist's Big Mac compares purchasing power pretty well - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Mac_Index

How will they calculate the Big Mac index for Iceland, now that McDonalds has left? http://money.cnn.com/2009/10/27/news/international/McDonalds...

That accurately reflects a currency collapse :)
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