My Roommate, the Darknet Drug Lord • Hacker News Board

Re: My Roommate, the Darknet Drug Lord

#11

Post by mootothemax » Thu, Mar 12, 2015, 4:44 PM UTC

q7 wrote: post #4

chatmasta wrote: post #2

"Sure, we wanted Ross to go free. We wanted him to be innocent, to be a hero: the poster boy for privacy in the Information Age." That may be partially true, but Ross polluted much of the goodwill the Internet community had for him when he decided to "order a hitman." I doubt he was ever that serious about hiring one. If you read the chats he had, he sounds completely out of his league, and probably never would have…

Oh c'mon, he ordered a hitman inside a play the FBI fully staged for him. There was never any harm done to anybody. Pure entrapment. Create a fake simulated decision dilemma he never had to decide in real life, put a lot of emotional pressure on him, and then when he made a bad decision inside this simulation that harmed nobody, try to condemn him for it. He hasn't lost my goodwill yet.

There was never any harm done to anybody.

Ross Ulbricht believed harm had come to the people he'd ordered gangland executions against.

There were plenty of opportunity to come forwards and say: "Hey, I've done an incredibly bad act; here's everything I know about the people I talked to."

Obviously, doing so wouldn't end well for him; it would show some moral standing, however.

The only person responsible for these choices is Ross Ulbricht.

Re: My Roommate, the Darknet Drug Lord

#12

Post by gwern » Thu, Mar 12, 2015, 4:44 PM UTC

amyjess wrote: post #3

So, I went to college with Ross. He was a year ahead of me. I didn't know him personally, but several of my friends did. I had a few friends in college (some of whom I still talk to) who were good friends with him. When he got arrested, I looked up his Facebook page, and I found we have 5 mutual friends listed (and I know a couple of others who knew him but didn't have him on FB). Also, when he was arrested, my then-…

> That stunned me, but what stunned me more was when I found out Richard Bates did most of the technical work.

'Most' is a gross exaggeration. Bates helped troubleshoot a few problems by fielding some questions. The trial transcripts and exhibits don't show he wrote any, much less 'most', of the SR1-related code; he had so little contribution that he had to be told what the project was by Ross.

Other people like 'Variety Jones' or especially the hired coder 'Smedley' contributed way more. (They just managed to avoid their real names coming up, as far as we know, and avoided lying to federal agents.)

Re: My Roommate, the Darknet Drug Lord

#13

Post by erhardm » Thu, Mar 12, 2015, 4:44 PM UTC

mootothemax wrote: post #9

chatmasta wrote: post #2

"Sure, we wanted Ross to go free. We wanted him to be innocent, to be a hero: the poster boy for privacy in the Information Age." That may be partially true, but Ross polluted much of the goodwill the Internet community had for him when he decided to "order a hitman." I doubt he was ever that serious about hiring one. If you read the chats he had, he sounds completely out of his league, and probably never would have…

when he decided to "order a hitman." I doubt he was ever that serious about hiring one. I'm not sure what's more horrific: - Someone who orders murders. - Someone who orders murders and doesn't think that seriously about it .

Doesn't matter. The condition will short-circuit at murder:)

Re: My Roommate, the Darknet Drug Lord

#14

Post by celticninja » Thu, Mar 12, 2015, 4:45 PM UTC

amyjess wrote: post #3

So, I went to college with Ross. He was a year ahead of me. I didn't know him personally, but several of my friends did. I had a few friends in college (some of whom I still talk to) who were good friends with him. When he got arrested, I looked up his Facebook page, and I found we have 5 mutual friends listed (and I know a couple of others who knew him but didn't have him on FB). Also, when he was arrested, my then-…

or he would just have to think which of the people he once knew in college has had a sex change.

Re: My Roommate, the Darknet Drug Lord

#15

Post by robbyking » Thu, Mar 12, 2015, 4:45 PM UTC

This is a bit of an aside, but this line really stung:

>> Ross was a techie, but he didn't act like one. He seemed eloquent, optimistic, down-to-earth.

One of the main reasons I got into software development in the 90's was the fact that software engineers were (largely) eloquent, optimistic, and down-to-earth.

It's sad that a vocal minority has sullied the image of an entire industry.

Re: My Roommate, the Darknet Drug Lord

#16

Post by eli » Thu, Mar 12, 2015, 4:48 PM UTC

robbyking wrote: post #15

This is a bit of an aside, but this line really stung: >> Ross was a techie, but he didn't act like one. He seemed eloquent, optimistic, down-to-earth. One of the main reasons I got into software development in the 90's was the fact that software engineers were (largely) eloquent, optimistic, and down-to-earth. It's sad that a vocal minority has sullied the image of an entire industry.

To be fair, that's been the stereotype for quite a while. Remember Revenge of the Nerds movies?

Re: My Roommate, the Darknet Drug Lord

#17

Post by amyjess » Thu, Mar 12, 2015, 4:50 PM UTC

gwern wrote: post #12

amyjess wrote: post #3

So, I went to college with Ross. He was a year ahead of me. I didn't know him personally, but several of my friends did. I had a few friends in college (some of whom I still talk to) who were good friends with him. When he got arrested, I looked up his Facebook page, and I found we have 5 mutual friends listed (and I know a couple of others who knew him but didn't have him on FB). Also, when he was arrested, my then-…

> That stunned me, but what stunned me more was when I found out Richard Bates did most of the technical work. 'Most' is a gross exaggeration. Bates helped troubleshoot a few problems by fielding some questions. The trial transcripts and exhibits don't show he wrote any, much less 'most', of the SR1-related code; he had so little contribution that he had to be told what the project was by Ross. Other people like 'Var…

From what I rememeber of the trial, Ross wrote the first version himself and then after he told Richard what it was, Richard ended up rewriting the whole thing because Ross's code was godawful.

Re: My Roommate, the Darknet Drug Lord

#18

Post by runjake » Thu, Mar 12, 2015, 4:51 PM UTC

robbyking wrote: post #15

This is a bit of an aside, but this line really stung: >> Ross was a techie, but he didn't act like one. He seemed eloquent, optimistic, down-to-earth. One of the main reasons I got into software development in the 90's was the fact that software engineers were (largely) eloquent, optimistic, and down-to-earth. It's sad that a vocal minority has sullied the image of an entire industry.

Virtually every niche of society considers others of their kind as eloquent, optimistic, and down-to-earth. This is a common perception in a group of people with shared passions. From artists, techies, to politicians and even Nazi Germany.

Re: My Roommate, the Darknet Drug Lord

#19

Post by celticninja » Thu, Mar 12, 2015, 4:51 PM UTC

amyjess wrote: post #17

gwern wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That stunned me, but what stunned me more was when I found out Richard Bates did most of the technical work. 'Most' is a gross exaggeration. Bates helped troubleshoot a few problems by fielding some questions. The trial transcripts and exhibits don't show he wrote any, much less 'most', of the SR1-related code; he had so little contribution that he had to be told what the project was by Ross. Other people like 'Var…

From what I rememeber of the trial, Ross wrote the first version himself and then after he told Richard what it was, Richard ended up rewriting the whole thing because Ross's code was godawful.

Gwern probably followed the trial a lot more closely than you did.

Re: My Roommate, the Darknet Drug Lord

#20

Post by gwern » Thu, Mar 12, 2015, 4:52 PM UTC

amyjess wrote: post #17

gwern wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That stunned me, but what stunned me more was when I found out Richard Bates did most of the technical work. 'Most' is a gross exaggeration. Bates helped troubleshoot a few problems by fielding some questions. The trial transcripts and exhibits don't show he wrote any, much less 'most', of the SR1-related code; he had so little contribution that he had to be told what the project was by Ross. Other people like 'Var…

From what I rememeber of the trial, Ross wrote the first version himself and then after he told Richard what it was, Richard ended up rewriting the whole thing because Ross's code was godawful.

No. That was Variety Jones, I believe, and it's unclear to what extent VJ wrote it himself or just pointed out all the problems and code-reviewed the new version; some of the journal entries points to the latter (Ross doing it himself).