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Drones and the rise of the high tech assassins

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Re: Drones and the rise of the high tech assassins

#91
post #48

> Families of the dead ultimately received $5,000 each, plus one goat. What the hell am I reading?

I was looking for the prison sentences for the war criminals who committed the murders, but obviously there were none. Every character in that story belongs in a cage.

Re: Drones and the rise of the high tech assassins

#92
post #51
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that the US are the main cause for those bad guys being there in the first pace, as they waged war (with justifications that later proved worthless) against the dictator that was able to keep the area under control. So, what the US should do now in Iraq? I have no idea. What should they do in general and in the future? Stop messing with foreign countries, destabilizing governments and waging wars with the sill…

That's what we tend to do in fact. We support whatever dictator is in power because it's better for business. With Iraq we believed that they were still hoarding WMD's that they had from the 1980's. As we now know, that turned out to not be the case, and they actually did destroy them. Before the war, it was reported by most media outlets that WMD's were still in Iraq. Then you had the UN weapons inspectors who kept…

"With Iraq we believed that they were still hoarding WMD's that they had from the 1980's."

Nope. It was a straight up war of aggression. Bush and Blair outright lied.

Re: Drones and the rise of the high tech assassins

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The links you posted reference Iraq, which was not a very nice place over the last decade. In many cases, a strong personality would emerge as a local leader. He'll usually have access to several small arms and enough money to feed and pay several dozen militia fighters. To legitimize his power he'll coordinate attacks on US personnel, usually ambushes, and make deals with people who have connections to global "terro…

Here's a better plan: stay out of other countries.

Isolationism is not a winning strategy for any nation. Soon enough, the world comes to your doorstep.

Re: Drones and the rise of the high tech assassins

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be a surprise to you, but it is the military who learned the most from Vietnam. It is the American public and our politicians who seem to have learned the least. The military is simply doing its job when presented with a task, whether it was spawned out of noble intentions or kneejerk reactionism. They know that they must be careful in pursuing anything that looks vaguely like a target, because the sentiment…

nobody wants this war? are you kidding sir? there is a lot to earn on every single war, these one being no exception. All companies manufacturing weapons, ammunition, subcontractors etc. Stop wars, they are out of job. Is it utterly immoral? But yes of course. Is it clear to most people outside of US? Not much doubt there. Is this going to happen again? You bet it will. Why? Just because US can. There was not so long…

> Is it clear to most people outside of US? Not much doubt there.

And yet all these operations are run from Europe. Where are the protests by Europeans?

Re: Drones and the rise of the high tech assassins

#96

I don't really think the drones are the problem. The problems are: - Lack of intelligence. The drone may be hovering overhead, but you still need local intel. Which is unrealiable - The weapons are not designed for the task. A hellfire missile is not the right weapon to target a single individual. There will be collateral damage unless the target is standing in a deserted area by himself. Also, while the hellfire may…

> And 'lets kill that asshole' is an easier sell than investing in intelligence and long term planning.

If that were true, how did we end up with a court to decide the fate of serial killers?

Re: Drones and the rise of the high tech assassins

#97

I don't really think the drones are the problem. The problems are: - Lack of intelligence. The drone may be hovering overhead, but you still need local intel. Which is unrealiable - The weapons are not designed for the task. A hellfire missile is not the right weapon to target a single individual. There will be collateral damage unless the target is standing in a deserted area by himself. Also, while the hellfire may…

Drones are to war what anesthesia is to surgery. It's not that people are against annihilating the enemy, we just don't want to know the dirty details. We know that there are times we'll need to eliminate an enemy -just don't get me dirty with it. This tool allows us to put fewer of our own in peril while putting out enemy at a disadvantage. Given that we are involved in conflict, neo liberal ideology has to step aside and let Realpolitik take over.

So just as we don't want to be conscious when the good doctor puts us under the knife and are spared from all the guts and nasties, so do drones do the dirty bidding for us. We could all clean up dirty toilets ourselves, but we'd mostly rather have someone else do that for us.

It's a job which must get done, just spare me the details.

Re: Drones and the rise of the high tech assassins

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't believe ISIS would kill as many innocents as possible? It is practically their mission statement. It's pointless to argue about statements containing words with highly subjective and arbitrary meanings like "innocents". Were the employees of the TV station the US bombed (with good precision and information!) in Serbia "innocent"? Of what crime were they guilty if not? The US apparently thought they weren'…

> Who are we to claim the people brutally murdered by the IS are - to the IS - "innocent"? If you believe the West and IS are morally equivalent then you may want to revisit your worldview.

There is little moral difference in my mind between ISIS armies and Western armies attacking and killing people.

Re: Drones and the rise of the high tech assassins

#99

I don't really think the drones are the problem. The problems are: - Lack of intelligence. The drone may be hovering overhead, but you still need local intel. Which is unrealiable - The weapons are not designed for the task. A hellfire missile is not the right weapon to target a single individual. There will be collateral damage unless the target is standing in a deserted area by himself. Also, while the hellfire may…

"Anarchic organizations are not well suited for a decapitation strike." You've been mislead if you believe ISIS and it's supporting factions are "anarchic" and don't have specialized training enough to cause disruption if personnel is lost. Along with the "guys in pickups" you see in the media, there are highly trained, well funded, experienced foreign and domestic soldiers taking part (on all sides).

Except the decapitation strike we are talking here are not about ISIS (That is another matter entirely now, they are effectively a state in many respects).

We are talking about the places where drones are used in a controversial manner: Afghanistan, Yemen and some other countries few people heard about, in all those places, the enemies US are fighting are warlords, tribal leaders, and loose terrorist groups...

They are not anarchic in the classic sense, they have hierarchy and structure, but they are like the Hydra, no matter how many heads you cut off, other will always pop up in its place.

Re: Drones and the rise of the high tech assassins

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be a surprise to you, but it is the military who learned the most from Vietnam. It is the American public and our politicians who seem to have learned the least. The military is simply doing its job when presented with a task, whether it was spawned out of noble intentions or kneejerk reactionism. They know that they must be careful in pursuing anything that looks vaguely like a target, because the sentiment…

The beginning of the 21st century shall always be remembered as the moment humanity became really sophisticated at killing poor people who live in mud houses from far far away.

...poor people with incredibly wealthy friends who fund their misdeeds. So yeah, relatively speaking they (the foot soldiers) may be poor but those controlling all sides are not.

And I'd say the 90's was the beginning of the "cruise missile" guided bomb era of warfare.

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