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Drones and the rise of the high tech assassins

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Re: Drones and the rise of the high tech assassins

#81

Post by saiya-jin »

knowaveragejoe wrote: post #49
tessierashpool wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the US should do now in Iraq is learn some restraint, diplomacy, and humility. In other words, we should learn the lessons everybody but the military had already learned from Vietnam.

It might be a surprise to you, but it is the military who learned the most from Vietnam. It is the American public and our politicians who seem to have learned the least. The military is simply doing its job when presented with a task, whether it was spawned out of noble intentions or kneejerk reactionism. They know that they must be careful in pursuing anything that looks vaguely like a target, because the sentiment…

nobody wants this war? are you kidding sir? there is a lot to earn on every single war, these one being no exception. All companies manufacturing weapons, ammunition, subcontractors etc. Stop wars, they are out of job.

Is it utterly immoral? But yes of course. Is it clear to most people outside of US? Not much doubt there. Is this going to happen again? You bet it will. Why? Just because US can.

There was not so long ago perception that US is the world police, the good guys. Well, these days, you guys are working hard to convince all the rest that China might be more suitable for this task.

Is it really hard to see how much evil is US creating in our tiny world? Did it at least once to people like you occurred, that you really, REALLY cannot well justify waging war half across the world, for laughable reasons?

Re: Drones and the rise of the high tech assassins

#82

Post by DanBC »

outworlder wrote: post #59

I don't really think the drones are the problem. The problems are: - Lack of intelligence. The drone may be hovering overhead, but you still need local intel. Which is unrealiable - The weapons are not designed for the task. A hellfire missile is not the right weapon to target a single individual. There will be collateral damage unless the target is standing in a deserted area by himself. Also, while the hellfire may…

Previous killings used mass bombing (which obviously kill too many civilians) or cluster bombing (again, killing and maiming too many civilians, especially hen the bomblets were the same colour as food-aid air-dropped packages http://www.landmineclearance.org/page2.html http://www.rawa.org/cluster2.htm)

In that context drones feel like an easy sell to the public. "Targeted!"

People opposed to drone use need to show how untargeted they actually are and how international law is probably being broken.

Re: Drones and the rise of the high tech assassins

#83

Post by throwaway9324 »

melling wrote: post #51
Udik wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that the US are the main cause for those bad guys being there in the first pace, as they waged war (with justifications that later proved worthless) against the dictator that was able to keep the area under control. So, what the US should do now in Iraq? I have no idea. What should they do in general and in the future? Stop messing with foreign countries, destabilizing governments and waging wars with the sill…

That's what we tend to do in fact. We support whatever dictator is in power because it's better for business. With Iraq we believed that they were still hoarding WMD's that they had from the 1980's. As we now know, that turned out to not be the case, and they actually did destroy them. Before the war, it was reported by most media outlets that WMD's were still in Iraq. Then you had the UN weapons inspectors who kept…

"Then you had the UN weapons inspectors who kept being thrown out of Iraq."

One of the reasons Iraq didn't co-operate with weapons inspectors was because they were infiltrated by US and UK intelligence. As far as I know they were never actually "thrown out". The other big reason is that the weapons inspections was the only bargaining chip they had left.

"If the weapons inspectors had been allowed to remain and do their job, there wouldn't have been a second Iraq war."

That is not what happened. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/weapons-inspectors-leave-iraq/

Re: Drones and the rise of the high tech assassins

#84

Post by hereonbusiness »

knowaveragejoe wrote: post #49
tessierashpool wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the US should do now in Iraq is learn some restraint, diplomacy, and humility. In other words, we should learn the lessons everybody but the military had already learned from Vietnam.

It might be a surprise to you, but it is the military who learned the most from Vietnam. It is the American public and our politicians who seem to have learned the least. The military is simply doing its job when presented with a task, whether it was spawned out of noble intentions or kneejerk reactionism. They know that they must be careful in pursuing anything that looks vaguely like a target, because the sentiment…

The beginning of the 21st century shall always be remembered as the moment humanity became really sophisticated at killing poor people who live in mud houses from far far away.

Re: Drones and the rise of the high tech assassins

#85

Post by dingaling »

newman8r wrote: post #10

I have been talking about this a lot with my friends. The question I raise is: when is the first private drone murder going to happen in the US and what will the implications be? There was a great ted talk on this http://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_suarez_the_kill_decision_sho... It's really not even something that's technically difficult. I am just thankful the best minds in the US tend to have plenty of healthy outlet…

> when is the first private drone murder going to happen in the US and what will the implications be?

I'm fairly certain of the outcome; UAVs will be banned from private ownership.

Only the military and approved commercial organisations will be permitted to own and operate them, much as with armed aircraft today e.g. http://tacticalairsupport.com/services/our-aircraft/

Re: Drones and the rise of the high tech assassins

#86

Post by happyscrappy »

pjc50 wrote: post #67
karmacondon wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iraq has a democratically elected government. Whether or not they are accountable, rights-respecting, impartial or even just is up for debate. But they can't govern without being able to impose the rule of law through a monopoly on force. Warlords do serve a social purpose. But it's better for everyone if a stable government serves that purpose instead. The nature of being a warlord is such that they won't respond to…

(Another page on the subject: http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/03/11/why-obamas-hopes-of-d... ; I don't really see what Obama is doing in the title, the policy would continue without him) You're arguing "force first; justice later". In particular, you're arguing that state justice, and your particular version of it, is the only valid and legitimate kind of justice. This leaves no room for what's called "natural" just…

It is convenient to pretend that these missions are not being run from Europe, but they are and the battleground will be in Europe where it is much easier to attack.

Re: Drones and the rise of the high tech assassins

#87

Post by tessierashpool »

knowaveragejoe wrote: post #49
tessierashpool wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the US should do now in Iraq is learn some restraint, diplomacy, and humility. In other words, we should learn the lessons everybody but the military had already learned from Vietnam.

It might be a surprise to you, but it is the military who learned the most from Vietnam. It is the American public and our politicians who seem to have learned the least. The military is simply doing its job when presented with a task, whether it was spawned out of noble intentions or kneejerk reactionism. They know that they must be careful in pursuing anything that looks vaguely like a target, because the sentiment…

knowaveragejoe: "the billions the US is pumping into these communities"

the actual article: "$5000 and a goat"

Re: Drones and the rise of the high tech assassins

#88

Post by knowaveragejoe »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #73
knowaveragejoe wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually a mixture of both. Some extremists(particularly ISIS) firmly believe they are in they end times and are carrying out what they think scripture dictates, others are involved for the reasons you stated.

So is the US, apparently, if you're to believe the story about Bush's motivations. > In the prelude to the 2003 Invasion of Iraq, President George W. Bush told Jacques Chirac that Gog and Magog were at work in the Middle East: "This confrontation is willed by God," he told the French leader, "who wants us to use this conflict to erase his people's enemies before a New Age begins." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gog_and…

I would argue that this represents an almost trivial minority sentiment today, in contrast to a pervasive belief among IS militants and supporters.

Re: Drones and the rise of the high tech assassins

#89

Post by kzrdude »

JoachimS wrote: post #43
kzrdude wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to understand that these death planes save lives: https://medium.com/matt-bors/yemen-bombs-yet-another-wedding...

You make it sound like that was an absolute truth. In what ways did the killing of those children and women in the main article save lives?

See the link for more information!

Re: Drones and the rise of the high tech assassins

#90

Post by josefresco »

outworlder wrote: post #59

I don't really think the drones are the problem. The problems are: - Lack of intelligence. The drone may be hovering overhead, but you still need local intel. Which is unrealiable - The weapons are not designed for the task. A hellfire missile is not the right weapon to target a single individual. There will be collateral damage unless the target is standing in a deserted area by himself. Also, while the hellfire may…

"Anarchic organizations are not well suited for a decapitation strike."

You've been mislead if you believe ISIS and it's supporting factions are "anarchic" and don't have specialized training enough to cause disruption if personnel is lost.

Along with the "guys in pickups" you see in the media, there are highly trained, well funded, experienced foreign and domestic soldiers taking part (on all sides).

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