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Drones and the rise of the high tech assassins

boingboing.net

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Re: Drones and the rise of the high tech assassins

#41

Post by chopin »

bluedino wrote: post #35
gldalmaso wrote: post #22

When all you have is a weapon everything looks like a target. US are being irresponsible pricks playing with guns and technology that is obviously not well suited for this kind of threat assessment. Also $5,000 per family? Really? Even after admitting the error? The U.S. Special Forces, Military, CIA or whatever are that low on budget (hardly) or simply do not give a flying fuck?

On the other hand, in theatre, a false positive is better than the alternative for mission success. Just like anti-virus software. You're better off flagging calc.exe as a virus than letting a 'maybe' through.

That's the fatal misunderstanding.

There is no theatre.

Re: Drones and the rise of the high tech assassins

#42

Post by [deleted] »

kzrdude wrote: post #6
forthelasttime wrote: post #3

More drone bashing, despite the fact drones are less likely to hit innocent people than manned aircraft, because drones can study a target for extended periods of time, where manned jets have just seconds. Edit: from the amount I've been down voted, I'm guess you'd be perfectly happy if a manned jet killed innocent people. If you continue drone bashing, you might succeed in making them use drones less frequently or e…

We need to understand that these death planes save lives: https://medium.com/matt-bors/yemen-bombs-yet-another-wedding...

[deleted]

Re: Drones and the rise of the high tech assassins

#43

Post by JoachimS »

kzrdude wrote: post #6
forthelasttime wrote: post #3

More drone bashing, despite the fact drones are less likely to hit innocent people than manned aircraft, because drones can study a target for extended periods of time, where manned jets have just seconds. Edit: from the amount I've been down voted, I'm guess you'd be perfectly happy if a manned jet killed innocent people. If you continue drone bashing, you might succeed in making them use drones less frequently or e…

We need to understand that these death planes save lives: https://medium.com/matt-bors/yemen-bombs-yet-another-wedding...

You make it sound like that was an absolute truth. In what ways did the killing of those children and women in the main article save lives?

Re: Drones and the rise of the high tech assassins

#44

Post by memossy »

The more degrees of separation there are between the order to kill and killing, the easier killing becomes.

This can cause all sorts of effects, including a fear of the sky itself, as can be see by the comments of this 13 year old who shortly after became the third member of his family to be killed by a drone in Yemen: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/10/drones-dream-ye...

It is also notable that the weapons used by predator drones when not just recon (as in the boingboing article) are hellfire missiles, burning innocents as well as targets.

It has been shown that "cutting the head off the snake"/killing leaders of these groups just doesn't work - ultimately since 2001 we have spent $1.6tr, killed thousands of civilians and the number of jihadists has gone from 1,000 to 100,000, with groups increasingly effective.

While an immediate threat/node is removed, the environment these attacks create leads to a multiplier effect on new nodes unless one is prepared to go for full on repression and savagery, in which case you are mirroring the enemy.

Finally the mass consumerisation of drone technology means it is only a matter of time before smaller versions are used against us, something that will cause huge levels of regulation on booming drone startups and likely wiping out of equity for many in the coming years.

Re: Drones and the rise of the high tech assassins

#46

Post by algorias »

bluedino wrote: post #35
gldalmaso wrote: post #22

When all you have is a weapon everything looks like a target. US are being irresponsible pricks playing with guns and technology that is obviously not well suited for this kind of threat assessment. Also $5,000 per family? Really? Even after admitting the error? The U.S. Special Forces, Military, CIA or whatever are that low on budget (hardly) or simply do not give a flying fuck?

On the other hand, in theatre, a false positive is better than the alternative for mission success. Just like anti-virus software. You're better off flagging calc.exe as a virus than letting a 'maybe' through.

We're talking about human lives here. You can't restore from backup when you make a mistake. My god, what arrogance.

Re: Drones and the rise of the high tech assassins

#47

Post by nakedrobot2 »

chinathrow wrote: post #18

If you happen to work for one of the contractors in this program: I kindly ask you to think about your goals and your ideals for humanity. I used to work for a sub-contractor to the military-industrial complex. I quit for ethical reasons. Never looked back. Thank you.

THANK YOU.

This is really all it takes.

Unfortunately there are way too many people who will "feed their kids" by any means necessary.

Re: Drones and the rise of the high tech assassins

#49

Post by knowaveragejoe »

tessierashpool wrote: post #39
Udik wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that the US are the main cause for those bad guys being there in the first pace, as they waged war (with justifications that later proved worthless) against the dictator that was able to keep the area under control. So, what the US should do now in Iraq? I have no idea. What should they do in general and in the future? Stop messing with foreign countries, destabilizing governments and waging wars with the sill…

What the US should do now in Iraq is learn some restraint, diplomacy, and humility. In other words, we should learn the lessons everybody but the military had already learned from Vietnam.

It might be a surprise to you, but it is the military who learned the most from Vietnam. It is the American public and our politicians who seem to have learned the least. The military is simply doing its job when presented with a task, whether it was spawned out of noble intentions or kneejerk reactionism.

They know that they must be careful in pursuing anything that looks vaguely like a target, because the sentiment of the population is far more important than a small victory like that. Hence the multi-billion-dollar communications and failsafes chain described in this article. This is a key concept that seems to be going over people's heads in this thread. Yes, it failed in this case and in many others. But the very fact that it exists at all and is sophisticated as it is should be a clue as to the lessons learned. The military is achieving far more value with far less collateral damage. Contrast this with the Soviet's preferred method of waging war against the Afghani Mujahideen, which was to kill every living thing and totally and utterly raze every structure in the direction from which they were shot at from.

So again, can you conceive a better alternative for dealing with reality as it is now? Time travel is not possible, answers like "don't invade other countries" are pretty worthless. Nobody wants this war(well, nobody with a soul and a modicum of compassion), but it is what it is, and as far I know, it's the best solution to minimize civilian deaths.

Re: Drones and the rise of the high tech assassins

#50

Post by knowaveragejoe »

littletimmy wrote: post #33
karmacondon wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The links you posted reference Iraq, which was not a very nice place over the last decade. In many cases, a strong personality would emerge as a local leader. He'll usually have access to several small arms and enough money to feed and pay several dozen militia fighters. To legitimize his power he'll coordinate attacks on US personnel, usually ambushes, and make deals with people who have connections to global "terro…

Here's a better plan: stay out of other countries.

Sounds great - let us know how the time travel thing is coming along. In the mean time, the US will have to deal with the present situation in some way or another. They already spend billions on aid, are they not supposed to deal with the other side of the coin - threats?
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