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We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

nytimes.com

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Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#71

Post by yardie »

coffeemug wrote: post #53
Confusion wrote: post #50

These comparisons are obviously bogus. If Norway is worse than the US, why do they have a good public healthcare system and a much lower poverty rate? And don't get me started on that slur about 'drug users crowding the streets'. Please, check your facts. About 'frugal living' and 'underpaid teachers': perhaps we feel rich, precisely because we are satisfied with our ten year old toaster and our home-made lunch. Part…

We don't feel the need to consume-consume-consume, and we certainly aren't brainwashed. This is really uncalled for - we do like a certain standard of living, but it doesn't mean we're brainwashed consumption machines born to satisfy an economic purpose as laid out by the federal reserve. Yes, most of my friends have playstations, flat screen TVs, and leased cars. Some of this stuff is financed by debt. But they do l…

You do realize the US has one of the highest debt to income ratios in the world. So while your friends aren't drowning in debt, the picture for the rest of the country doesn't look so rosey.

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#72

Post by mcd »

eric_t wrote: post #44
lupin_sansei wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you supply some sources to back up your claims, particularly about the crime and social problems in Norway vs the US, and also work hours.

The police in Norway doesn't carry guns, that should give you an indication...

The police in Botswana also doesn't carry guns...

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#74

Post by anateus »

The article, as many of its ilk, presupposes that certain things are "good" and others are "bad".

Purchasing power is used, rather than GDP as some other commenters have assumed, but it only tells you what is possible to purchase rather than how closely what is possible matches what is desired by that population!

Interacting with Scandinavians I've found that the concept known variously as hyggelig , gemytligt, hyggw, koselig, gemuetlichkeit (in various northern European languages) is very central to their cultural identities. It represents a sort of... "social coziness", a comfortable harmony, and this is what is sought. To me this stands in contrast to states of mind that would make an American happy.

Don't take my comment as saying that this cultural concept somehow renders Scandinavians superior. I find that my own preferences tend towards having the greatest purchasing power, but without delving into the murky depths of cultural relativism it's important to understand that the subjective evaluation of objective economic parameters can vary wildly.

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#75

Post by abrahamsen »

At the low point (2000) the EUR was 0.8 USD. At the high point (2008) it was 1.6 USD. The (old) EU and the US are close enough economically for a factor two to decide the outcome of most comparisons.

Also, when people say Norway is rich, it is not just because it has the second highest GDP of the world. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway#Economy). It is also because they have saved a good part of the oil money (more than USD 100.000 per capita, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Government_Pension_Fund_of_...) preparing for the combination of an aging population and finite North Sea oil resources). So they are rich also in the literal sense of having a lot of money, not just spending a lot of money.

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#76

Post by mpf62 »

coffeemug wrote: post #53
Confusion wrote: post #50

These comparisons are obviously bogus. If Norway is worse than the US, why do they have a good public healthcare system and a much lower poverty rate? And don't get me started on that slur about 'drug users crowding the streets'. Please, check your facts. About 'frugal living' and 'underpaid teachers': perhaps we feel rich, precisely because we are satisfied with our ten year old toaster and our home-made lunch. Part…

We don't feel the need to consume-consume-consume, and we certainly aren't brainwashed. This is really uncalled for - we do like a certain standard of living, but it doesn't mean we're brainwashed consumption machines born to satisfy an economic purpose as laid out by the federal reserve. Yes, most of my friends have playstations, flat screen TVs, and leased cars. Some of this stuff is financed by debt. But they do l…

How does buying stuff on credit increase your standard of living? At short notice, this may be the case, but this kind of behaviour is not sustainable. You know, there will be a day when the bills become due. What are you going to do then? Pass them on to your children?

It is really weird that Americans feel “we’re rich, you’re not” because of all the things they “possess” (on credit).

I wonder how many members of these armies of homeless that populate the US streets are where they are because they lived a live today they couldn’t even afford tommorrow.

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#78

Post by silentbicycle »

anateus wrote: post #74

The article, as many of its ilk, presupposes that certain things are "good" and others are "bad". Purchasing power is used, rather than GDP as some other commenters have assumed, but it only tells you what is possible to purchase rather than how closely what is possible matches what is desired by that population! Interacting with Scandinavians I've found that the concept known variously as hyggelig , gemytligt, hyggw…

While I don't know about the rest of Scandinavia, Sweden also has a prominent cultural idea of "lagom" - that enough is better than too much or too little. "Enough is as good as a feast."

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#79

Post by ttjervaag »

Confusion wrote: post #50

These comparisons are obviously bogus. If Norway is worse than the US, why do they have a good public healthcare system and a much lower poverty rate? And don't get me started on that slur about 'drug users crowding the streets'. Please, check your facts. About 'frugal living' and 'underpaid teachers': perhaps we feel rich, precisely because we are satisfied with our ten year old toaster and our home-made lunch. Part…

In addition to the other superficial claims presented in the article and exposed here I'd like to point out that the average age of regular cars in Norway is now 10.3 years [1], compared to 9.4 years for the US [2]. Hardly worthy of the emotional statement "they drive around in wrecks".

For bigger cars, SUVs or vans, the age difference is flipped, 6.9 years in Norway and 7.5 years in the US. There is enough difference in the car models between the two continents to explain staring googly-eyed at trucks when you get to the states, without resorting to emotionally inflated statistics.

This article is pretty shallow in my eyes. It adds nothing to any debate (I'm not sure what debate it is supposed to add to) and is full of hyperbole and superficial conclusions based on one person's observations.

[1] http://www.ssb.no/english/subjects/10/12/20/bilreg_en/ [2] http://www.autoblog.com/2009/03/04/study-median-age-of-cars-...

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#80

Post by Tichy »

ttjervaag wrote: post #79
Confusion wrote: post #50

These comparisons are obviously bogus. If Norway is worse than the US, why do they have a good public healthcare system and a much lower poverty rate? And don't get me started on that slur about 'drug users crowding the streets'. Please, check your facts. About 'frugal living' and 'underpaid teachers': perhaps we feel rich, precisely because we are satisfied with our ten year old toaster and our home-made lunch. Part…

In addition to the other superficial claims presented in the article and exposed here I'd like to point out that the average age of regular cars in Norway is now 10.3 years [1], compared to 9.4 years for the US [2]. Hardly worthy of the emotional statement "they drive around in wrecks". For bigger cars, SUVs or vans, the age difference is flipped, 6.9 years in Norway and 7.5 years in the US. There is enough differenc…

Plus I suspect New York is not representative of the whole US, but I could be mistaken.

I had the same "eyes falling out" effect in Germany when I visited Leipzig, a nice city in the former east German parts. It is supposed to be poor compared to Munich (where I used to live), yet all the houses looked so new and shiny. Reason: lots of money from the government for rebuilding (economic improvement plans), and also I think a famous house building scam that let to a huge influx of money into building houses. Not all the housing is put to good use now.

Just to say that not all things are what they seem at face value.

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