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We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

nytimes.com

51–60 of 119 posts

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#51
post #29

In the US the average worker works 1,777 hours per year, in Norway it's 1,328. That's a lot of extra time for family, friends, hobbies, etc. They've made a choice about their work/life balance and we (or our capitalist masters) have made a choice about what is important to us. How much salary would you give up in exchange for 25% less time at work? Also, the Norwegian bottom 10% makes twice as much as the American bo…

Could you supply some sources to back up your claims, particularly about the crime and social problems in Norway vs the US, and also work hours.

Just off the top of my head, 25 days off a year (not including public holidays) is the norm in Britain, compared to, what, 5-10 in the US? The attitude towards work is very different in Europe, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if working hours were lower.

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#52
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're taking a middle class perspective poor people in the US can't afford pizza. poor people in scandinavia don't really exist.

> poor people in scandinavia don't really exist. Poor Scandinavian-Americans don't exist either. (Poverty is not equally distributed.)

So all those blonde homeless guys I see lining up for free meals at the Mission downtown, I guess those guys would all be of German-American descent, huh?

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#53

These comparisons are obviously bogus. If Norway is worse than the US, why do they have a good public healthcare system and a much lower poverty rate? And don't get me started on that slur about 'drug users crowding the streets'. Please, check your facts. About 'frugal living' and 'underpaid teachers': perhaps we feel rich, precisely because we are satisfied with our ten year old toaster and our home-made lunch. Part…

We don't feel the need to consume-consume-consume, and we certainly aren't brainwashed. This is really uncalled for - we do like a certain standard of living, but it doesn't mean we're brainwashed consumption machines born to satisfy an economic purpose as laid out by the federal reserve.

Yes, most of my friends have playstations, flat screen TVs, and leased cars. Some of this stuff is financed by debt. But they do lead a pretty good life and they're not crippled by debt or three backbreaking jobs.

We love to play, and we work hard to do it. It's a different mindset - there is no reason to be insulting.

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#54
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're taking a middle class perspective poor people in the US can't afford pizza. poor people in scandinavia don't really exist.

Lets not take it out of perspective - no one will starve here, this isn't Uganda, and Domino's has $5 Pizzas.

Then I guess this story from ABC Chicago is a big lie, and the food bank is really just gonna buy $5 Dominos pizzas for everyone?

"CHICAGO (WLS) -- A food pantry on Chicago's far South Side says it has run out of food to help the needy.

The Greater Chicago Food Depository says food banks throughout the city are in desperate need of donations.

The economic downturn is making it harder for many to feed their families.

The food depository says there has been a big jump in demand for help at area food banks. That's expected to go up as the holiday season approaches. And they need more supplies to meet the demand."..."

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=6...

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#55
post #29

In the US the average worker works 1,777 hours per year, in Norway it's 1,328. That's a lot of extra time for family, friends, hobbies, etc. They've made a choice about their work/life balance and we (or our capitalist masters) have made a choice about what is important to us. How much salary would you give up in exchange for 25% less time at work? Also, the Norwegian bottom 10% makes twice as much as the American bo…

Could you supply some sources to back up your claims, particularly about the crime and social problems in Norway vs the US, and also work hours.

Damnit, geeks always want data, here's what I could find on Google, 1,360 vs 1,804 work hours in 2005 according to http://www.swivel.com/data_columns/show/2465290

Half the violent crimes according to http://dev.prenhall.com/divisions/hss/worldreference/NO/crim... and http://dev.prenhall.com/divisions/hss/worldreference/US/crim...

I can't explicitly find the comparison of the 10% poorest but it can be deduced from the statistics you can find on google if you're interested.

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#57
post #2

It's fascinating to see how even a nation with a free media can still have total buy-in to an entirely delusional self-image. Scary stuff.

It's a testament to the differences between perception and reality. The NHS in the UK regularly gets poor ratings, in fact they're regularly flat out abysmal on national satisfaction scales, yet all out-patient questionnaire's regularly return with satisfaction rates >90%. People perceive the NHS as this behemoth incapable of performing, but the reality is that it performs amazingly well and provides one of the best…

" Yet respondents states that Canadians dislike America on a whole more since Obama took office than before, and that Canadians feel less safe visiting the US than before."

Funny you mention that. I just took a train tonight from Vancouver Canada, to Seattle WA. The difference between the two places for night and day, and what you just said sums it up perfectly.

When I got on the train on the Canadian side, the streets are bustling with activity, they're also clean. Homelessness is a problem, but overall the city is kept in good shape and business is booming. The train station is old, but kept in good repair, with many travellers milling about.

I get off the train in Seattle and I see a crumbling train station that can't even afford to replace its light bulbs. The moment I walk out the door I am accosted by a group of homeless folk. I am yet accosted by more homeless folk as I make my way to the bus stop. As I ride the bus downtown the streets are deserted, there's homeless folk everywhere, people picking fights in streets... it's like a bad 80s dystopian movie come to life. It reminds me of Demolition Man without the open firefights in the streets. I've lived here for several months now and I do not feel safe walking these streets at night. Hell, sometimes I don't feel safe walking these streets in broad daylight. There's garbage everywhere, poverty at levels I could not even imagine before moving from Canada. There are shootings in my neighbourhood weekly. People I've mentioned this to blame me for living downtown, and imply that this comes with living in an urban centre. I call bullshit: I've lived downtown in 3 different Canadian cities, and none were anywhere this bad. One is also much larger and denser than this one.

I've only been to a handful of other American cities - but if Seattle is the best you've got (and by national rankings it's pretty far up the list of good cities), you guys have a big, big, big problem.

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#58
The statistics are misleading, but the problems they point out are inherent in the political system of Norway. The distribution of wealth using taxes (income, land and VAT) for all political parties is more or less the same. T here are few really rich people and few poor people. The real difference to the US as I see it is the purchase power of the middle class and upper middle class. In Norway, oil and the middle class is paying the bill for the expansive and expensive state. 5 years of uni education only gets you a 25%-40% extra pay when you start out (compared to uneducated work), but makes it possible to double it over time.

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#59
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While poor people in Scandinavia (and drugs will ensure that some people are poor) can't afford $30 pizza.

In Scandinavia, drugs don't ensure that some people are poor. Some people choose to spend the $30 on drugs instead of pizza, of course-- but there really is no poverty here.

Let me ask again.

Are you guys saying this video ABC report from Chicago about A food bank Chicago emptied of food is a lie?

Do know that unemployment runs 70% among people with partial disabilities trying to find work? What do you think these perpetually unemployed partially disabled people are doing, living off their trust funds?

Re: We're Rich, You're Not. End of Story.

#60
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're taking a middle class perspective poor people in the US can't afford pizza. poor people in scandinavia don't really exist.

Lets not take it out of perspective - no one will starve here, this isn't Uganda, and Domino's has $5 Pizzas.

The permanently disenfranchised immigrant underclass that the American economy relies on doesn't exist in Norway.
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