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Water Fluoridation Linked to Higher ADHD Rates

newsweek.com

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Re: Water Fluoridation Linked to Higher ADHD Rates

#21

Post by civilian »

elif wrote: post #10
rcthompson wrote: post #5

After reading the title and the paper's abstract, this seems to me like just one more instance of the many, many statistics that are strongly correlated with overall economic development of a society, and hence strongly correlated with each other without any causal link. In this case, the relevant factors would be "water fluoridation prevalence" and "capacity of doctors to diagnose ADHD", which are both almost certai…

It is naive postulation to dismiss the paper for not addressing a variable, when you have not even read the paper to know whether they addressed the variable. Further, your cursory read of the abstract somehow missed the clause "after controlling for socioeconomic status"

But socioeconomic status might not be the confounding variable. It could be something more like "civilization" or "the amount of pro-health resources in the community". Fluoride and child doctors are both things that contribute to health, and different communities make different decisions about how much importance they want to place on childhood health.

I also suspect that fluoridation does not track with socioeconomic status. I mean, look at how Portland Oregon's got rid of fluoridation.

Nevertheless, reading the article, it does look like they have rat studies that show that fluoride in rats causes mental impariment.

Re: Water Fluoridation Linked to Higher ADHD Rates

#22

Post by kaens »

rcthompson wrote: post #5

After reading the title and the paper's abstract, this seems to me like just one more instance of the many, many statistics that are strongly correlated with overall economic development of a society, and hence strongly correlated with each other without any causal link. In this case, the relevant factors would be "water fluoridation prevalence" and "capacity of doctors to diagnose ADHD", which are both almost certai…

Not to mention that ADHD can't be diagnosed in the same manner as, say, a broken bone since it is (to make a simplification) a bunch of behaviors that suggest that maybe this individual's dopamine response is flatter than normal, sometimes aided in diagnosis with motor / memory tests.

I would guess that this would make it difficult to control for misdiagnosis, and I would also guess that there are a fair number of misdiagnosed kids with ADHD seeing as about 2/3 of them "grow out" of it last time I checked.

(Note: I have ADHD. It was obvious as a kid, but I wasn't diagnosed until I was 24 due to my parents religiosity. I know there are valid childhood diagnoses, and that we've made quite a lot of progress with understanding and being able to diagnose neuropsychiatric disorders. There also seem to be quite a few "social pressure" and "fad" diagnoses of ADHD in the USA -- if this study wants to be taken seriously, they might consider repeating it in other countries.)

Re: Water Fluoridation Linked to Higher ADHD Rates

#23

Post by Alex3917 »

bicknergseng wrote: post #16

Ugh. I hate to think of all of the "I told you so's" from the misguided people in Portland who continually vote against fluoridating the water with no actual scientific basis for doing so.

So you're saying that science says we should treat all drugs as being safe unless proven to be harmful?

Re: Water Fluoridation Linked to Higher ADHD Rates

#24

Post by undersuit »

DennisP wrote: post #11
nickhalfasleep wrote: post #3

You could also say that more civilized locations have better doctors capable of diagnosing ADHD.

Perhaps. But given that we have several candidate mechanisms, and experiments showing that fluoride really does cause hyperactivity in rats, I wouldn't write this off too quickly.

I would. You're now in the 1st page result in google for: "fluoride really does cause hyperactivity in rats."

Re: Water Fluoridation Linked to Higher ADHD Rates

#25

Post by johndevor »

DennisP wrote: post #11
nickhalfasleep wrote: post #3

You could also say that more civilized locations have better doctors capable of diagnosing ADHD.

Perhaps. But given that we have several candidate mechanisms, and experiments showing that fluoride really does cause hyperactivity in rats, I wouldn't write this off too quickly.

Link?

Re: Water Fluoridation Linked to Higher ADHD Rates

#26

Post by elif »

michael_h wrote: post #17
elif wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is naive postulation to dismiss the paper for not addressing a variable, when you have not even read the paper to know whether they addressed the variable. Further, your cursory read of the abstract somehow missed the clause "after controlling for socioeconomic status"

I think the 'controlling for socioeconomic status" was just between the states, not an all encompassing control of economic status. Two states with a similar rise in economic activity and ADHD wouldn't fail afoul of the control. Maybe. This article might hold up, but my past experience with statistics in medical papers does not give me great hope. For a while, my job was to review the math in interesting papers (well…

It would be a statistical sin to determine that after seeing N papers with an error, that the N+1th would certainly have an error. Extrapolating the specific error without even seeing the paper is closer to rhetoric than science.

Re: Water Fluoridation Linked to Higher ADHD Rates

#28

Post by DennisP »

johndevor wrote: post #25
DennisP wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps. But given that we have several candidate mechanisms, and experiments showing that fluoride really does cause hyperactivity in rats, I wouldn't write this off too quickly.

Link?

It's right there in the Newsweek article, which links to a study at PubMed.

Re: Water Fluoridation Linked to Higher ADHD Rates

#29

Post by maxmcd »

bicknergseng wrote: post #16

Ugh. I hate to think of all of the "I told you so's" from the misguided people in Portland who continually vote against fluoridating the water with no actual scientific basis for doing so.

Whoops. I guess I'm uninformed on this one, but I thought the whole "Flouridation is bad" thing had some basis in truth? There have been a few other articles about it on HN.

Any chance I can get a more elaborate correction?

Re: Water Fluoridation Linked to Higher ADHD Rates

#30

Post by DennisP »

undersuit wrote: post #24
DennisP wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps. But given that we have several candidate mechanisms, and experiments showing that fluoride really does cause hyperactivity in rats, I wouldn't write this off too quickly.

I would. You're now in the 1st page result in google for: "fluoride really does cause hyperactivity in rats."

Well given that I got that from the Newsweek article we're discussing, and they provided their source, that's just silly on Google's part.
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