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Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

cnn.com

171–180 of 280 posts

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#171

This may not be the most popular thing to say, but ... Just move? If you are the head of a large household living in an area where the cost of living is too high to support your dependents, you would do a whole lot of good for them and yourself by starting new in some other part of the country. At the very least it would be wise to relocate across the Bay. I realize that people have families, social networks, and sma…

The value of your labor relative to housing is dropping every year too you know. The notion of re-balancing forces is a nice simple story but the price of housing relative to income has risen nationwide for decades. There is a similar story for medical care and even food. So yes it's fun to believe in the invisible hand and Adam Smith's 200 year old thesis. But the reality is that the value of all labor is simply bei…

For that matter, Adam Smith was a great deal more aware of structural factors and the lack of sustainability that would result from unrestrained pursuit of wealth -it's salutary that he titled his most famous work 'The Wealth of Nations' rather than 'The Wealth of Corporations.'

Smith was keenly aware of the dangers of mercantilism and WoN is anything but an argument for unrestrained capitalism. Indeed, the second most observation in the book, after the one about the fact that butchers and bakers are motivated by self-interest rather than generosity, is that “People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.”

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#172

It skips some important points. The cost of living is high due to zoning laws and a lack of building. Subsidizing families' rent will just make existing landlords richer. It would just drive rents up further. What is needed to get fewer people bidding on the same unit. If landlords are finding <1 suitable tenants per vacancy then suddenly it becomes a renter's market.

On top of more housing, we need better public transit. Start with running Caltrain every 10 minutes. Change local transit so that it becomes a feeder to/from Caltrain, BART, etc. And make it cheaper.

yes, public transportation is very important to spread the liveable area beyond commutable distances. That would mean more land to build on. A more expansive and well connected BART network would be very beneficial.

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#173
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming government resources are needed to be spent to help resolve this, would they not be put to better use helping individuals relocate to somewhere sustainable (especially those who would be making a living wage elsewhere) than to subsidize the difference year after year?

I wonder if anyone's asked those poor people what they want. I've seen a few commenters here suggesting using government money to ship 'em out, or retrain or job-place them, but I wonder: what do the poor in Silicon Valley want for their lives? Do they want to be shipped out? To be retrained? Better wages? Cheaper housing? These are people, after all, and are worthy of being involved in any discussion concerning thei…

The problem is that the "poor" people are asking the wrong question. They are asking, "why can't I afford to live where I grew up?" The question they should be asking is, "should I live where I grew up?"

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#174
post #163
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you sort of overlooked the detail that I was a military wife (stated early in my above comment). I have lived in Georgia, Texas, Kansas, Washinton state, California, and Germany. I have driven through most states in the continental U.S. I spent a month on the gulf coast in Port Aransas on my way back to California. I returned to California from Georgia on foot and accepting rides, which took roughly two months…

Quite oposite. I dont understand why someone who traveled world and has medical condition would settle down in California. Just try Greece for couple of months. Doctors are great here, speak english and are much cheaper.

You don't have to understand my preferences. All you need to do is try to respect my right to decide for myself what is best for me.

Thinking you have a superior answer for my life after reading a couple of comments by me on the Internet and saying I should move to another country because you don't understand my choices is beyond insulting.

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#175
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, we need to ask is Manhattan affordable? Are Manhattan prices dropping? Did they ever? A 10%-20% price difference is irrelevant and will just disappear in just a few years anyway.

The price difference will increase if San Francisco continues to not build enough housing to meet demand.

Building isn't the main difference between SF and NY. If everyone in Brooklyn want to live in Manhattan prices would be very different.

If anything SF has become more centralized and companies keep paying high salaries and other perks playing in to the whole thing.

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way you frame the argument is ignoring all the social, economic, and political problems that come with attempts to solve the issue. Rent control, for instance, has some serious issues that arguably negate the benefits that come from it.

I hate rent control, but I think it's a symptom of incumbents' unwillingness to allow more development, on the grounds that it would lower the value of the property they own (or more realistically, slow that value's rate of increase). A fixed-rate mortgage is basically rent control for better-off people; typically the mortgage-holder pays off a small bit of principal each month and pays rent on the outstanding amount…

> I hate rent control, but I think it's a symptom of incumbents' unwillingness to allow more development,

No. It began in SF as a very-specific response to Prop 13, which is essentially property-tax-control

Both are bad policies in terms of market distortion and are often the overlooked elephants in the room in discussion of housing supply and affordability.

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way you frame the argument is ignoring all the social, economic, and political problems that come with attempts to solve the issue. Rent control, for instance, has some serious issues that arguably negate the benefits that come from it.

I hate rent control, but I think it's a symptom of incumbents' unwillingness to allow more development, on the grounds that it would lower the value of the property they own (or more realistically, slow that value's rate of increase). A fixed-rate mortgage is basically rent control for better-off people; typically the mortgage-holder pays off a small bit of principal each month and pays rent on the outstanding amount…

[deleted]

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#178
post #41

This may not be the most popular thing to say, but ... Just move? If you are the head of a large household living in an area where the cost of living is too high to support your dependents, you would do a whole lot of good for them and yourself by starting new in some other part of the country. At the very least it would be wise to relocate across the Bay. I realize that people have families, social networks, and sma…

Moving is expensive too. If you're hand-to-mouth poor, you cannot afford a rental truck, let alone time off work and still feed your children. You will probably lose your job if you move, and not find another one where you land, especially if you're in the service industry. Good luck with that East bay -> peninsula commute on your minimum wage. The reason many cannot get jobs other places is due to felonies or other…

I moved to Seattle for Tech work. It required 2 months of planning and less than $5k in expenses (for two people). I moved from Memphis, TN.

Places like the Puget Sound and the Bay Area are going to keep getting populated with tech workers, and they are going to keep rising in cost.

Moving isn't hard. It sucks to feel kicked out of the city you live in, but there isn't much that can be done. If you can't afford it, move somewhere that you can.

I hate gentrification, but what can we do to avoid it? Ban high-paying jobs? Maybe one day all of this will bite us in the ass, but if you find yourself on the receiving end right now, do the best thing you can for yourself and get out!

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#179
post #121

there's no way the median HH income in san mateo county is 88k

Lots of people lived in San Mateo county before it was all +$1M homes. If you bought at $400K 10-15 years back, you're probably doing fine on $88K/yr.

Even if you bought in 2011, when the $1M home was $600k, you'd be fine.

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#180
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moving is expensive too. If you're hand-to-mouth poor, you cannot afford a rental truck, let alone time off work and still feed your children. You will probably lose your job if you move, and not find another one where you land, especially if you're in the service industry. Good luck with that East bay -> peninsula commute on your minimum wage. The reason many cannot get jobs other places is due to felonies or other…

When times are tough, moving does not need to be expensive. Before I moved to SV, I sold or donated everything I couldn't fit in two suitcases. I moved into an affordable house where I share a bedroom with 3 other people. I would be able to make rent with only $20k/year. I know not everybody can divorce themselves from all of their belongings, especially large families. Additionally, I didn't have to worry about scho…

The struggles of the poor ("poor" as defined by the original post) are not the same as the struggles of a fresh college grad.

Households on minimum wage are often paycheck to paycheck, and thus have no buffer with which to even find a roof in a new city, much less hunt for a job in a less-reliable industry.

Also, familial connections are not just purely for joy - they may provide some amount of free childcare that would become a financial burden after moving away.

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