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Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

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Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#141

Post by Mz »

jkot wrote: post #132
Mz wrote: post #106

For people saying "Just move": I lived on the West Coast (Washington State and two places in California) for about ten years as a military wife. I had to leave California during my divorce because I could no longer afford it. I returned to California three years ago as a homeless person. I returned for my health. My medical condition is hellaciously debilitating and expensive to treat. Being not so sick to begin with…

Hm, stockholm syndrome? We live in place with better climate than California, 100 meters from sea. Our total monthly expenses for 3 member family, are probably lower than most people in SV pay for rent. We rent nice house, insurances, school, etc...

Maybe you sort of overlooked the detail that I was a military wife (stated early in my above comment). I have lived in Georgia, Texas, Kansas, Washinton state, California, and Germany. I have driven through most states in the continental U.S. I spent a month on the gulf coast in Port Aransas on my way back to California. I returned to California from Georgia on foot and accepting rides, which took roughly two months (actual travel time, not counting the month spent in Port Aransas).

I am nearly 50 years old and I have been around the block a few times with my health issues, as well as all over the country. I am a LOT healthier in California than anywhere else.

This is not some psychological issue and it is not some untested hypothesis. It is a pretty thoroughly tested understanding of what helps keep me healthy for less than the average $100,000 annually my medical condition typically costs.

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#142

Post by redthrowaway »

jcdavis wrote: post #61
redthrowaway wrote: post #23

Maybe I'm missing the point here, but why is it reasonable to think that a single mother with a low income should be able to afford to live in San Mateo?

Because reality for the lower class is far more complicated than that. In theory, she should move elsewhere. In practice, its not nearly that easy - there's no certainty of a new job, no money to move, (well-placed) fear of losing what little safety net they have, etc.

That's awful for her and others in her situation, but I don't think it supports an argument that anyone should be able to afford to live in any region regardless of their income. And really, that's the only solution to problems like hers: building subsidized low-income housing in very expensive areas.

San Mateo is expensive. Very expensive. Outside of direct market distortions like subsidized low income housing, it will always be too expensive for many people to live there. As many challenges as she faces in moving, she'll face more trying to raise a child in a garage.

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#143

Post by Lawtonfogle »

Mz wrote: post #106

For people saying "Just move": I lived on the West Coast (Washington State and two places in California) for about ten years as a military wife. I had to leave California during my divorce because I could no longer afford it. I returned to California three years ago as a homeless person. I returned for my health. My medical condition is hellaciously debilitating and expensive to treat. Being not so sick to begin with…

I'm not saying that you can't live where you choose. I'm saying that if someone wants government help, the government, having limited resources and many people to help, should be very practical in how it leverages its resources. For example, if it takes 100k (if not a bit more) a year to help a small family escape poverty here, but moving them and escaping poverty in another city would cost far less and leave money to help the next family, it is better to do the most good for the most people.

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#144

Post by clay_to_n »

Mz wrote: post #106

For people saying "Just move": I lived on the West Coast (Washington State and two places in California) for about ten years as a military wife. I had to leave California during my divorce because I could no longer afford it. I returned to California three years ago as a homeless person. I returned for my health. My medical condition is hellaciously debilitating and expensive to treat. Being not so sick to begin with…

Thanks for your story. "Just move" is not a solution. If someone talked to twenty homeless individuals, and asked them in-depth why they don't "just move", that person would probably stop thinking it's going to solve homelessness.

I'm all for programs to actually help people move, and get them support in their new location and etc. But that's not what most people here are talking about.

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#145

Post by aslewofmice »

jkot wrote: post #109
hypnos1 wrote: post #68

The lack of empathy on display here is astonishing. Is this quality a prerequisite to participating in the luckier side of the wealth-gap of silicon valley?

Why lack of empathy? Most people here share the pain. I know guy with "good job" who lives in van. I personally would love to come to SV, but simply can not effort it with family.

Because there's a scary proportion of people in here saying things like: - "how about they just move?" - "the guy is a construction worker? they're in demand, just go to a construction office and get a job" - "I don't get it. One person on video lives in nice bedsit (garage) and talks about homeless."

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#146

Post by Lawtonfogle »

Frondo wrote: post #119
Lawtonfogle wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming government resources are needed to be spent to help resolve this, would they not be put to better use helping individuals relocate to somewhere sustainable (especially those who would be making a living wage elsewhere) than to subsidize the difference year after year?

I wonder if anyone's asked those poor people what they want. I've seen a few commenters here suggesting using government money to ship 'em out, or retrain or job-place them, but I wonder: what do the poor in Silicon Valley want for their lives? Do they want to be shipped out? To be retrained? Better wages? Cheaper housing? These are people, after all, and are worthy of being involved in any discussion concerning thei…

I'm in no way limiting their choices. I am merely discussing the limits that should be put to best utilize limited government resources. If they do not like those limits, they do not have to accept the aid.

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#147

Post by anigbrowl »

fragsworth wrote: post #62
coderzach wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My sentiment is not classist or elitist. You just think poor people should have to move out of their homes because rich people decided they want to live there. Got it. > The same argument applies to people of all socioeconomic background. Yeah, rich people get forced out of their homes because they can't afford them all the time. /s

The way you frame the argument is ignoring all the social, economic, and political problems that come with attempts to solve the issue. Rent control, for instance, has some serious issues that arguably negate the benefits that come from it.

I hate rent control, but I think it's a symptom of incumbents' unwillingness to allow more development, on the grounds that it would lower the value of the property they own (or more realistically, slow that value's rate of increase). A fixed-rate mortgage is basically rent control for better-off people; typically the mortgage-holder pays off a small bit of principal each month and pays rent on the outstanding amount.

So if we want to outlaw rent control, we should outlaw fixed rate mortgages too, and eliminate the artificial cap on property taxes (something that corporations exploit by using shell companies to 'own' commercial real estate, and then transferring ownership or voting control of the shell company while shielding themselves from property tax on the current value of the real estate). But we both know that that's not likely to happen.

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#148

Post by slipjack »

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #25
mgraczyk wrote: post #20

This may not be the most popular thing to say, but ... Just move? If you are the head of a large household living in an area where the cost of living is too high to support your dependents, you would do a whole lot of good for them and yourself by starting new in some other part of the country. At the very least it would be wise to relocate across the Bay. I realize that people have families, social networks, and sma…

It costs a lot to move, especially when you are unskilled and have no idea if you will be able to find employment wherever you end up. It is made worse when you are participating in any sort of social safety net because you don't know if you'll have that available when you get wherever the grass is greener. And that says nothing about social and familial networks.

Not to mention that a family's informal support network often works as a subsidy/social safety net, and when you move that definitely will not follow you. Probably the most common example is that many families in the US use family members to care for small children, because child care can easily cost ~30% of a family's income. Asking families to move to a lower COL area may well mean they have to pay more.

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#149

Post by pron »

mgraczyk wrote: post #20

This may not be the most popular thing to say, but ... Just move? If you are the head of a large household living in an area where the cost of living is too high to support your dependents, you would do a whole lot of good for them and yourself by starting new in some other part of the country. At the very least it would be wise to relocate across the Bay. I realize that people have families, social networks, and sma…

Disregarding the question of the cost/possibility of moving, do we as a society want communities to be completely segregated based on income? Do we want poor kids to grow up without role models and good education opportunities? Do we want rich kids to grow up believing they somehow deserve all this, completely detached from the rest of society and the problems they face?

The forces of the market are not the forces of nature, and we make the rules (or, at least, shape them greatly).

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#150

Post by amagumori »

mgraczyk wrote: post #20

This may not be the most popular thing to say, but ... Just move? If you are the head of a large household living in an area where the cost of living is too high to support your dependents, you would do a whole lot of good for them and yourself by starting new in some other part of the country. At the very least it would be wise to relocate across the Bay. I realize that people have families, social networks, and sma…

> I have personally relocated for financial reasons three times in my life. I moved away from home for college, I moved to a new location for my first job, then I recently relocated to the Bay Area because this was the optimal place for me to be economically.

> I make enough to travel to visit family several times a year

are you serious, dude? leave the advice giving for people who have actually been poor and understand the logistic difficulties of poverty. "just move"? you have the freedom to move to the most economically optimal place for you, and you think THAT is equivalent to the situation of a family living hand to mouth in transitional housing or section 8?

YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

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