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Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

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51–60 of 280 posts

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#51
post #44

As someone from outside the US, how much do you need to earn in order to live well in this area? There was one slide stating a minimum of $100K for a family of four just to "escape poverty". Is that really the case? And if so, how do early stage founders who aren't already rich manage to get by?

They don't have a family of four. They are usually young and single.

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#52
post #17
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Push for policy changes that allow for the addition of enough housing to bring down prices.

Surely, we need more government regulations and programs not less. Removing zoning laws can't possibly be the solution. Maybe we can have the government give housing to poor families, thereby taking housing stock off the market and reducing supply.

This is simple supply and demand. Everyone from liberal economist Paul Krugman [1] to SF board of supervisors member Scott Wiener [2] agrees that California and bay area housing policies are horrible. The only people who actually like these policies are the people who are benefiting from them, typically because they moved to a neighborhood decades ago and are either on rent control or "rent control for property tax" (aka Proposition 13).

The solution is simple. Set aside a square mile in each city on the peninsula and zone it such that it is illegal to build a building of less than 10 stories. At the same time, and more importantly, repeal both proposition 13 and rent control statutes.

For step 3, sit back and watch the California economy go into turbo drive as there is a massive construction boom, which funnels money away from rich landlords and into the pockets of ordinary construction workers and the service workers that support both them and the engineers the region's wealth is built on.

1 - http://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/07/opinion/reckonings-a-rent-... 2 - https://medium.com/@Scott_Wiener/yes-supply-demand-apply-to-...

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#53

This may not be the most popular thing to say, but ... Just move? If you are the head of a large household living in an area where the cost of living is too high to support your dependents, you would do a whole lot of good for them and yourself by starting new in some other part of the country. At the very least it would be wise to relocate across the Bay. I realize that people have families, social networks, and sma…

"I believe that even with optimal housing growth there would not be enough real estate to comfortably house the current lower-middle class population of SV"

The word optimal is doing a hell of a lot of heavy lifting here.

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#54

I don't think the solution is as simple as 'building more housing'(aka giving permits). It would drive down the prices somewhat, but what's to stop more engineers from moving in/shortening their own commutes etc? I think the term we're looking for is 'build low-income housing'. That would make it more likely that people who need it get it.

More people want to live there? Awesome, build even more. Demand is not infinite. Ever.

Right. Now imagine you live in one of those cities. You're living comfortable as an engineer, etcetera. You have a community going on. Your city has its budget, its school system and so on. The city wants to allow permits to build as many houses as it can to drive the low enough to make them affordable for the homeless. Bear in mind you live in a very attractive part of the country, so homeless will be driven out of the market very quickly. That's a LOT of units. There are only limited public resources, and they can expand only so fast. If you care even a bit about community around the place you live, you know having tens/hundreds of thousands of people (who are likely not going to be long-time residents) moving straight in couple of years is not a good idea. You're going to vote against the city granting those permits. One would rather the city build low-income housing then let the swamped by new transplants.

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It costs a lot to move, especially when you are unskilled and have no idea if you will be able to find employment wherever you end up. It is made worse when you are participating in any sort of social safety net because you don't know if you'll have that available when you get wherever the grass is greener. And that says nothing about social and familial networks.

Thank you! I can see how one might feel 'just move' is a good argument, but really NO! In chinatowns all over the country, whenever low-income residents are being priced out, the argument is always 'you can just find another place to stay'. They've lived there for decades, if not more. That's where all the people they know are. They are poor but they do have a support system, that lives with them. When they move away…

> some people feel VERY STRONGLY emotionally about where they live

Those feelings are a luxury. Taxpayers should not be forced to bear the cost of someone's emotional attachments.

I would prefer tax dollars be spent on relocation assistance + job placement to help get people on a sustainable path.

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#56
post #41

This may not be the most popular thing to say, but ... Just move? If you are the head of a large household living in an area where the cost of living is too high to support your dependents, you would do a whole lot of good for them and yourself by starting new in some other part of the country. At the very least it would be wise to relocate across the Bay. I realize that people have families, social networks, and sma…

Moving is expensive too. If you're hand-to-mouth poor, you cannot afford a rental truck, let alone time off work and still feed your children. You will probably lose your job if you move, and not find another one where you land, especially if you're in the service industry. Good luck with that East bay -> peninsula commute on your minimum wage. The reason many cannot get jobs other places is due to felonies or other…

Assuming government resources are needed to be spent to help resolve this, would they not be put to better use helping individuals relocate to somewhere sustainable (especially those who would be making a living wage elsewhere) than to subsidize the difference year after year?

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#57

Fix the public education system so that living in a poorer area doesn't mean your kids have zero chance at real success. We are moving more and more towards a caste-system where your parents success is the most important factor in your own success, as a child. It hurts us all when we don't have the most qualified people possible performing the important professions.

You could fix both issues by moving out of California. The children could get a good public education, and the parents could afford a house.

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#59
post #44

As someone from outside the US, how much do you need to earn in order to live well in this area? There was one slide stating a minimum of $100K for a family of four just to "escape poverty". Is that really the case? And if so, how do early stage founders who aren't already rich manage to get by?

They don't have a family of four. They are usually young and single.

AFAIK the median/average age of founders is around 40.

Re: Poor Kids of Silicon Valley

#60

This may not be the most popular thing to say, but ... Just move? If you are the head of a large household living in an area where the cost of living is too high to support your dependents, you would do a whole lot of good for them and yourself by starting new in some other part of the country. At the very least it would be wise to relocate across the Bay. I realize that people have families, social networks, and sma…

> My sentiment is not classist or elitist. You just think poor people should have to move out of their homes because rich people decided they want to live there. Got it. > The same argument applies to people of all socioeconomic background. Yeah, rich people get forced out of their homes because they can't afford them all the time. /s

I'm a 40+ Programmer making good money with a family of five. A year ago I thought long and hard about moving away. In the end, I decided to stay because we have family here. Here's my unsolicited advice: if you are less than 30 and don't plan on being a dual-income family, move away no matter how much income you have. It makes no financial sense to live in the Bay Area: your net worth will be entirely tied to your property which is risky compared to living somewhere else and having diverse investments and savings.

The advice makes sense for the rich as well as the poor.

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