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Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years (2012)

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Re: Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years (2012)

#71
post #37
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since voices don't change until puberty -- any kid screaming sounds the same. And in the vein of special individuals, there are little girls who love and hate insects, and little boys who love and hate insects. Perhaps a more original phrase or analogy would be better: I would scream like a Dryococelus australis being attacked by rats.

> Since voices don't change until puberty -- any kid screaming sounds the same. Apparently you have not met any. They don't sound anything alike, except maybe as newborns. > there are little girls who love and hate insects He just said scream like a little girl, there was no connotation of girls hating or loving insects. Just a sound.

there was no connotation of girls hating or loving insects. Just a sound.

There was, however, the connotation that girls are prissy and easily scared.

Re: Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years (2012)

#72
post #44
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have you never heard a little girl scream? It's not the same as the sound of a little boy. I disagree, all little humans learn how to make that piercing scream often attributed to little girls. Little boys will likely do it less as they begin to be socialized and thus wedged into gender roles, but they definitely do "scream like little girls".

> I disagree, all little humans learn how to make that piercing scream often attributed to little girls. You apparently don't actually know any little boys and girls because their screams sound nothing alike. Boys do manage a nice scream, but it doesn't sound the same, especially past the age of 3. > Little boys will likely do it less as they begin to be socialized and thus wedged into gender roles Again with this no…

> You apparently don't actually know any little boys and girls because their screams sound nothing alike. Boys do manage a nice scream, but it doesn't sound the same, especially past the age of 3.

I worked as a neurology technician for four years, doing tests on a patient load that was half paediatric, plenty of whom had an induced drowsy state to bring out epileptic activity. Drowsy kid, strange environment, strange person touching their head, and sometimes autistic. For four years, I spent half the day in the presence of children's screams. I promise you that they don't sound different, and certainly not to the qualitative level you're trying to shoehorn in here.

And seriously, it's not like the statement was a neutral explanation. It's a trope - no-one says "run away screaming like a little boy". Trying to defend it as a serious qualitative explanation of the actual sound made is nonsense.

> A desire for equality will not be achieved by erasing all differences, but by celebrating all differences, and recognizing each is valuable in its own way.

I wholeheartedly agree - we need to recognise people as individuals and individual differences. Hence why we need to drop generalising tropes like "run away screaming like a little girl", because they are about stereotypes, not individuality. There are plenty of girls out there who don't do that - my mother's earliest memory is of patting a hairy spider, for example. No 'running away screaming' for that individual.

How on earth you defend "like a [demographic]" as some sort of comment in support of recognising individuality is beyond me.

Re: Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years (2012)

#74
post #66

I'm all for preserving endangered species and all, but frankly these insects scare the hell out of me and if I was anywhere close to one of them I may run away, screaming like a little girl. I believe I'm not very exceptional a person thus I suspect they'll have difficulties convincing people to have this species reintroduced on any inhabited island.

You're not Australian, so you're not naturally immune to the fear of creepy crawly insects.

Speaking as an Aussie, I'd much prefer to come across one of these in the bush than I would an angry drop bear.

Re: Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years (2012)

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the subtley linked 'Husbandry Manual': http://www.aszk.org.au/docs/lhisi.pdf Section 3.2 (p8) The population at Melbourne Zoo, being descended from a single pair, appeared to experience increasing symptoms of inbreeding over two generations until four adult males were introduced, descended from a second pair held at Insektus in Sydney, and their genes began to have an influence. After new males were introduced,…

That was still pretty interesting, I think. The Melbourne Zoo population ballooned after the four new males arrived: " the population at Melbourne Zoo, which hovered around 20 individuals at any time during the first three years of captive management, rose to 600 within 12 months of the males’ genes taking effect." Even though the four males were all descended from a single (different) pair. That means they got a sta…

I don't know; a 100% increase in whatever you've got is generally thought of as significant.

Re: Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years (2012)

#77

What I don't fully understand is, usually when scientists try to preserve rare species, there is a critical mass under which there isn't enough genetic diversity to preserve the species (I've seen ~30 quoted for some rare mammals). But in this case, just two individuals were able to start a viable population. Why are these insects different? I can only think of a couple reasons... - since these insects have a r-selec…

IANAB but

> there is a critical mass under which there isn't enough genetic diversity to preserve the species (I've seen ~30 quoted for some rare mammals)

The Blue Book ("Viable Populations for Conservation") puts it between 50 and 1000 individuals for 95% probability of survival over 100 years, but it's highly variable between species and ecosystems on both intrinsic (r-strategy which you quoted) and historical grounds: for the second case, the Mauritius Kestrel was brought back from an effective population of 2 mated pairs. But its ecosystem has a carrying capacity of under 1000 individuals and it had already gone through several genetic bottlenecks.

The weta are r-strategist anyway, Poor Knights wetas have clutches of 200~300 eggs.

Re: Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years (2012)

#78
post #72
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I disagree, all little humans learn how to make that piercing scream often attributed to little girls. You apparently don't actually know any little boys and girls because their screams sound nothing alike. Boys do manage a nice scream, but it doesn't sound the same, especially past the age of 3. > Little boys will likely do it less as they begin to be socialized and thus wedged into gender roles Again with this no…

> You apparently don't actually know any little boys and girls because their screams sound nothing alike. Boys do manage a nice scream, but it doesn't sound the same, especially past the age of 3. I worked as a neurology technician for four years, doing tests on a patient load that was half paediatric, plenty of whom had an induced drowsy state to bring out epileptic activity. Drowsy kid, strange environment, strange…

[1] is a paper showing adults can distinguish boys' and girls' voices from age 4. The "mean fundamental frequency" is the same for boys and girls, but the "formant spacing" (differences in pitches of adjacent vowels, I think) was different.

I can't find anything on children screaming.

[1] http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Valentina_Cartei/publica...

Re: Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years (2012)

#79
post #46

i'm in two minds about this. on the one hand, this is evolution in action, the habitat for this animal was decreased by the presence of a successful predator. on the other, rats have no sympathy from me, and we have plenty of them around, so why not wipe them out to allow insects to flourish? somehow killing a bunch of rats to allow a failed species to reclaim its territory seems wrong. so i lean towards letting this…

Removing rats from places is hard.

See the attempt to remove hedgehogs from some Scottish islands - very expensive failure.

April 2003 - Attempts to begin a cull of hedgehogs on North Uist in the Western Isles have got under way.

(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2920067.stm)

April 2005 - Animal rights activists are trying to rescue hedgehogs as an annual cull gets under way in the Outer Hebrides.

(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4406675.stm)

October 2005 - Protest over annual hedgehog cull

(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4390054.stm)

April 2007 - The board of Scottish Natural Heritage (SNH) has decided to suspend its cull of hedgehogs in the Western Isles.

(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/63...)

February 2010 - Hebridean hedgehogs: a prickly issue The Uists cull has already cost more than £1m, but we should question the causal link between bird and hedgehog populations

(http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/feb/25/hedgehog...)

February 2011 - £1.3m hedgehog cull to save islands' birds eggs 'fails'

(http://www.scotsman.com/news/163_1_3m_hedgehog_cull_to_save_...)

Re: Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years (2012)

#80
post #65
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the algae didn't intend to alter it. That's the difference. We don't respond to environmental pressure, we just apply equal and opposite pressure (for the most part, obviously everything has a cost). It's like a psychology experiment. If one of the subjects figures out the parameters of the experiment the experiment is ruined because that individual will likely mess up the whole system by acting intelligently ins…

define intent and intelligence? i'm yet to see evidence of free will, i'm not convinced i am not just a machine doing its thing like everything else is... also, this feels like a religious argument from both sides.

I agree that this borders on philosophy. The reason I hold the opinion I hold is that I feel it results in greater sustainability. The Earth regulates itself pretty effectively and did so for a long time before we got smart. Therefore, I think we're better off messing around with it as little as possible and allowing that self-regulation to continue to the greatest extent possible since we don't actually know if we can do better, or even as well, (and if we bet that we can and can't, we're in trouble).
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